<spacekitty420[m4> "when both haveno and serai out..." <- And here I thought Monero was censorship resistant. How would you go about forcing any exchange to delist XMR?

<plowsof> "localmonero = binance + 10..." <- It only when buying it's +10%. When selling it's -10% 🤪🤣

<TrasherDK[m]> "And here I thought Monero was..." <- They didn’t say who. Maybe the government does it

What government? All of them?

TrasherDK[m]: Take your pick

That fell flat quickly 🙂

TrasherDK[m]: I’m glad

The statement was fairly self explanatory

Still waiting `What government? All of them?`

USA and Canada = no legal xmr

Edit.. forgot kraken

The idea that XMR could be delisted from all CEX is in itself ridiculous.

Binance.com not allowed in USA

Binance.us = no xmr

TrasherDK[m]: They didn’t say all

ofrnxmr[m]: Thank you!!! This is already the case today

Kucoin isnt either, but they just dont respond to requests

Is binance still a thing?

Troll alert

Its still the number 1 exchsnge in the world by a large margin

A very large margin

Like 5-10x as large as #2

I wouldn't know. Too much shadiness going on, so never visited.

And top 4 cex own something like 70% of the eth supply

Ah, yes. The web3 dumpsterfire shitshow. Another area I stay well clear of.

Web3 only in masketing so it make the dumpsterfire smell better

s/masketing/marketing/

ofrnxmr[m]: tradeogre and others like kucoin do not block usa users

also, think it's more like 5% not 70% re: eth

I was looking for the chart I saw

Might be 70% if staked eth

And tradeogre and kucoin, correct. They dont. But they operate illegally

Well... citizens arent legally allowed to use em, and legally kc, and tradeogre is supposed to follow certain laws to offer services to citizens of specific States

And pay fees to be a part of certain regulatory panels etc

I would say quasi-legallly

not strictly illegally

I know the guy who owns dead exchange at freebitcoins.com

which also lists monero

jwinterm: Depends where

and he said that he believes that, according to his lawyer, there is room for interpretation on these things

New York and Texas, definitely illegal

and speaking from experience, there is no definite laws about anything wrt cryptocurrency or NFTs in the usa

it's all murk

You cant offer services in a state that specifically has laws against the servuce

Or or the tokens

", with some of the casualties including major exchanges such as Binance, Poloniex, OKEx, and Bitfinex. It first announced actions against KuCoin and Bybit in June last year and has been going after them since then."

I am not a cex

I am therefore setting the price

1xmr = $723.18

get them while they last

Beautiful

Yeah, I think 700 is a good best market starting point

Bear

I saw a comment about network traffic and decided to check my node:

Received 31524862939 bytes (29.36 GB) in 13881481 packets in 3.6 days, average 99.12 kB/s = 0.60% of the limit of 16.00 MB/s

Sent 720639902968 bytes (671.15 GB) in 17053574 packets in 3.6 days, average 2.21 MB/s = 13.83% of the limit of 16.00 MB/s

I don't know how unusual that is, but it seems that the network has been getting some attention.

do you have public rpc enabled?

Avg 2.2 mb/s 👀

How many incoming connections do you have?

For connections: about 100 in right now. I think it got up to 130 or so when I checked it a bit ago.

rpc should be fully enabled, need to check.

Not sure, but perhaps selsta was asking if the public-node flag was enabled

I assume it is that high due to public rpc.

mine have similar traffic

Pre fork, rino was counting ~ 50% of nodes were updated.

If they were nodes that had incoming connections open, when they went offline, traffic was redirected to other nodes who have incoming connections open

would make sense, I lost about half of my connections on fork and have more incoming now

The number of "not ready" increased LoL

Yep, public rpc. I don't have a data cap and I'm glad to see it being used. I think when I initially set everything up a few months back it was sending about 80 GB per day, but I'm not sure if I remember that correctly.

<TrasherDK[m]> "And here I thought Monero was..." <- idk, maybe if there s a consensus in the community about it and then that selsta asks them nicely maybe they would, cant know for sure that it wouldnt work if didnt at least give it a try...

<ofrnxmr[m]> "", with some of the casualties..." <- Bullish. Very bullish. Now folks can get their head out of their asses and start using the coin how it’s supposed to be used. Do business with it and stop f’ing around on exchanges

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Might be 70% if staked eth..." <- Yeah POS is going to be a complete shitshow

is there even a date that wont be pushed back yet again? i mean, there used to be an official date for eth PoS and that was november 2017 like actually 5 fucking years ago 😹

Did hash fall on Sunday when old version stopped being recognized?

Fluffy called vitalik out 5 years ago for being a scammer 🚮

I’m curious to know if there were botnets that couldn’t be updated

Yes

Lost a few pools, some still down, some had issues and were back up in hrs

aremor[m]: a lil bit yeah, p2pool also lost about 100 miners apparently

Yep p2pool saw hashrate drop but just after a major increase larger than before

”lost” window miners as hashrate increased, so less appear per-window

Eth PoS will start the next bear run

People have no idea that it won't change anything about the fees

did they kept idea of decreasing total supply through fees being burned?

So many think merge=sharding and 2 cent fees

Does so many recent inputs selected as decoys, makes it much easier for ciphertrace to track txs? As they just need to own a high percentage of recent transactions

if ciphertrace actually owns majority of recent transactions then tbh, monero would be an actual shitcoin that literally no one even use cause that tx count from yesterday is pretty fucking low (20k)

like, mastercard literally can do more than twice that is a single second of what monero did in a whole 24 hours

s/is/in/

mastercard banned a whole country recently, no thanks

<spacekitty420[m4> "if ciphertrace actually owns..." <- Who knows ?

Ciphertrace originally announced their 'tool' roughly 2 years ago, and literally nothing has ever come from it.

There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if anyone can provide credible evidence.

nah, sounds correct, ciphertrace been pretty much just full of shit so far

but they gotta keep the ruse to keep getting fundings so... 😹

> <@spackle_xmr:matrix.org> Ciphertrace originally announced their 'tool' roughly 2 years ago, and literally nothing has ever come from it.

> There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if anyone can provide credible evidence.

Ignore ciphertrace, just high percentage of decoys from recent outputs is dangerous

no it's not

decoy selection algorithm was tuned like this to mimic real spending patterns

there's a lot of research that went into it

sech1: What if some entity already owns 50-60 percentage of recent transactions?

sech1: Mimic, but they can filter good number of their own txs?

That's not enough to mount a significant attack of decoy deanonymization

then they'd know that 8 of 16 decoys are fake

not enough

merope: Enough to lower the ring size effectiveness? Increasing their probability?

Crap, the paper is not on moneroresearch

nikg83[m]: Of course that would *lower* it, but it would still leave the true spend protected

There's a paper about this - in order to deanonymize a significant number of transactions, they would need to own 90%+ of all outputs

and that paper was written when the ring size was 11

merope: If I am moving 2 old inputs which are marked, in a single tx ; won’t it be spotted easily ?

There's actually a nice plot showing what % of all decoys they need to own in order to deanonymize 50% of all transactions, iirc

sech1: Yes, but that was before we did this recent change to decoy selection which now makes the % higher for recent inputs

nikg83[m]: You are thinking of input correlation (proving that two separate inputs belong to the same owner, because they show up in the same transaction, in spite of the decoys). What we're talking about is input deanonymization (proving which input is the true spend by knowing that the others are not because they belong to you/are known spent)

merope: Yah inputs get deanonymized , also when someone is spending a old output even if it’s single one

That's not a statement

Let’s say I have a input from 2020, I make a tx with decoys mostly from 2022-21 with new algo and my input will standout

What is the probability that decoy algo would have picked my 2020 input as a decoy in some other tx ?

I don't know the exact number, but it's pretty low. That's how the decoy selection algo is designed, because in general there are pretty low chances of anyone spending an output so old

However, don't forget that your old output will also have shown up in other transactions back in 2020 already

It usually selects 1-2 old inputs as decoys

but if you spend 10 inputs from 2020 in a single transaction, it will be kind of obvious which are real spends

merope: Is that a conclusion from monero blockchain analysis that ppl don’t spend from their old stack ? Or some other coin analysis?

They looked at spend patterns on other coins and designed the algo from thay

s/thay/that/

Rucknium: is now doing more on that to design the new algo

merope: Is every output used as a input decoy at somepoint ?

nikg83[m]: Statistically yes. In fact, the average number of times that happens is == to the ringsize

So ringsize 11 means each output shows up in 11 transactions on average

merope: That’s nice, has this been measured ? Or should happen

Assuming my napkin math is correct, I believe there's something like a 2% chance of getting a value older than the start of 2020 with Monero's gamma distribution.

Obviously not the probability for a single transaction, but hopefully an informative statistic nonetheless.

nikg83[m]: I don't know if anyone has done any scientific measurement on that, but I know that there is a program somewhere that allows you to scan the blockchain and see all the transactions where a given input shows up

So you could do that for a large sample of inputs and see if the average is 11 or not

Oh there it is, thanks

Btw is eabe attack possible? Or slightly more hard now with increased ring size

Or high target users need to have more churns in between

possible but less reliable now

and it will be even less reliable when ring size is increased to 128

* Assuming my napkin math is correct, I believe there's something like a 2% chance of getting a value older than the start of 2020 with Monero's gamma distribution. That's for each decoy, so a set of decoys will have a significantly higher change of including an 'old' value.

Obviously not the probability for a single transaction, but hopefully an informative statistic nonetheless.

<merope> "They looked at spend patterns on..." <- Not exactly true. Moser et al. (2018) used a subset of old "traced" Monero transactions and fit a log-gamma distribution to the real spend age distribution: moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=15

<merope> "There's actually a nice plot..." <- I believe it is governed by a binomial distribution, under simplifying assumptions. I wrote an R Monte Carlo simulation here: gist.github.com/Rucknium/cd7b3b9ed73cba83a985731fba512ad1

But if it's binomial, then a Monte Carlo simulation is necessary, since binomial gives exact probabilities.

<nikg83[m]> "If I am moving 2 old inputs..." <- Probably. I think the cli and GUI warn users when they are about to do this. Borggren and Yao (2020) discuss this issue: moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=57

In theory we could have a more sophisticated decoy selection algorithm that takes into account multi-input transactions, but that research is for the future.

<Rucknium[m]> "But if it's binomial, then a..." <- Er, I mean the Monte Carlo simulation is _unnecessary_ if the it's simply binomial.

A monte carlo sim could be useful for using the empirical Monero data and removing the simplifying assumptions.

<spacekitty420[m4> "idk, maybe if there s a consensu..." <- I'm pretty sure, some commercial entity, is more concerned with a positive bottom line, than some community feelings. Selsta asking nice will not change that. Comes down to: Dude, mind your own business. Effectively banning something like our thing, would involve a ridiculously number of jurisdictions, and good luck trying to get them to agree about anything.

> <@spackle_xmr:matrix.org> Ciphertrace originally announced their 'tool' roughly 2 years ago, and literally nothing has ever come from it.

> There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if anyone can provide credible evidence.

Well, if getting a shitload of money, equals nothing came of it, you'd be right.

they didnt get a shitload on money from monero tho

LN was in the same contract and got paid because of that, not because of monero

s/on/of/

aremor:

Kicking deposits are back open

Kucoin*

Ciphertrace didn't get the IRS contract. That was Chainalysis + Integra Fec: news.bitcoin.com/ciphertrace-enhanc…ro-tracing-capabilities-governments

>A couple of months after Ciphertrace claimed to have a tool to trace Monero transactions, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) hired crypto intelligence firm Chainalysis Inc. and data forensics firm Integra Fec LLC to provide tools to track Monero transactions. This suggested to the crypto community that the solution offered by Ciphertrace was not sufficient.

Rucknium[m]: my bad, i tend to confuse those fuckers once in awhile 😹

but point still stands that they didnt get a shitload of money from monero then :3

<spacekitty420[m4> "LN was in the same contract..." <- Let's forget about that specific bounty that was put on Monero's head.

right so then would just assume most of their income would be coming from like, helping LE to trace some bitcoin transactions, funds from some altcoins hacks taht happened and things like that

Yeah. Pretty much 😄

funny thing is, there's been few exceptions where hackers tryna do some real obfuscations (like chainalysis report on that oneplus token thingy few years ago) but there's a very high percentage of those dumbasses that straight up sending to binance (or similar KYC exchange) 🤦‍♀️

* years ago),, * sending through mixers and whatnot but there's

like, that literally blows my mind, some nerd doing some next level hacking shits but just too dumb to not even take monero or kyc into consideration, like being all like tunnel vision, that's... very interesting x)

spacekitty420: That's nerds for you 😝🤣

Meanwhile there's tons of literal stoners who are experts at using Monero with the best opsec you have ever seen

people that pay hackers to do things for them don't necessarily know much themselves

TrasherDK[m]: what did I ask?

selsta: Context?

selsta: someone suggested as part of the plan for binance to stop trading monero was for you to ask them nicely

Ah, asking nice for delisting of Monero from exchanges 🙂

Why would I ask for delisting lol

Selsta like "... what did I walk into"

you have influence

:D

Yep. My answer was. Exchanges: `mind your own business`

No for profit, with employees, proprietary business that skirts around laws is going to delist because we ask nicely

Delisting would be a matter if government pressure / regulations

or their bottom line.

A lot of exchange want to be _paid_ to list your token.

Those who list money, do it because its beneficial to them

so pay them to delist

.lenny

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

nioc: On a monthly basis? How much?

(◕‿◕)

1bill xmr

Cat says that I should not use her wallet

binance is very important for monero, most of the swaps use binance, so without binace there wouldn't be monero on changenow,sideshift,fixedfloat etc

Not trueb

So, to protect noobs, from themselves, those in the know should pay. Sounds like a plan.

MajesticBank: but they literally just closed widthdrawal once again while letting deposits open

Without Binance, that liquidity would hopefully go to an exchange that doesnt papertrade

saying again that its a network issue

ofrnxmr[m]: ^ this

Someone, I presume binance, empties out swap providers every time there is a crash

try to buy 50k of monero on exchange other then binance and let me know how it goes

yes it is an excuse other exchanges use, it is easy for them to do so

They literally game swap providers for a profit by faking the reported prices by weight

tiny pump from 0.068 to 0.072, binance closed withdrawal :derp:

MajesticBank: Precisely

Binance is worse than minexmr

Worse as far as whales or centralization or controlling outputs

when they had stopped deposits and withdrawals the price on binance was lower than other exchanges and when they opened up price went up

spacekitty420[m4: LOL. XMR/BTC is a metric for performance?

TrasherDK[m]: the theory is that binance forcing price down so as soon as they open withdrawal that makes price go up a lil bit then they closing again, wouldnt sayt its a metric for performance but its a metric that follows the usual pattern when that type of thing is happening

price goes up and down constantly, for everything everywhere that is traded

but the fuck do i know, selsta apparently saying that binance just have wallet issues and we're just wackos believing in conspiracy theories or somethin somethin

What can I say? Stay the fuck away from binance. Personally, I enjoy watching the bot wars on Kraken. Sometimes I catch a P-N-D wave, and scores a few neros.

LMFAO kraken uses to piss me off

Watching bots run away from my limits

nioc: and billions dollar companies having constant software issues over and over again is also totally normal

spacekitty420 @spacekitty420:matrix.org: this is why I turned the finger and questioned "is this a MONERO issue?"

I don't know much about trading but if an exchange has withdrawals closed it means people can't arbitrage between them causing the price difference.

Meaning, if Binance has these issues, how will.. Amazon fare if they allowed xmr deposits

Instant xmr death?

Lolz.

yeah, monero is just a trash software than even billion dollar companies whole IT department cant even figure out

and if a whole IT department cant figure it out, how can u expect regular joes and janes to?

IRS have tried for a while 🙂

Yeah. selsta:

But not futures

Arbitration from spot > futures. That the paper price game

I'm too drunk for this. I'm off. Later...

latta o/

Also I don't have insight into exchanges. I don't know how legit they are, all I know is they often reach out with wallet issues while people on Reddit simultaneously make up conspiracy theories on why they closed it.

And personally I can't imagine exchanges collaborating to suppress monero's price.

Whatever shady things they are doing with fractional reserve they will likely do it to all coins.

you're the one talking about exchanges collaborating, binance is the biggest one according to coinmarketcap and it's not even in the US

they're also the most trusted exchange on coinmarketcap

while tradeogre (which is way more trusted for years in the monero community overall) doesnt even have a trust score over there

if you also check historical trading on binance 80% of volume is people buying monero

oh wait... they bought coinmarketcap few years ago, that website belongs to them

there will never be "enough" monero because people more keep it then sell it

Monero can be more difficult than other coins to deal with

kraken have something in their website called "proof of reserve", idk if its something to be trusted or not but unlike binance that dont have that, they dont keep closing withdrawal every single time its expected

1) 10 block lock on re-spending confirmed outputs

2) maximum 16 outputs in a transaction

3) Must be connected to a Monero node to construct a transaction (without custom code)

4) Not a code fork of bitcoin nor ethereum, so it doesn't have the same RPC capabilities, etc

Rucknium:

Gotta hate matrix changing your numbers 😆😆

10) It takes computing power to send monero transaction

kraken an employee who is experienced with monero

they set everything up properly

Binance has enough $$$ to hire 10 such employees

and even then they ran into issues yesterday because their wallet is so huge

And enough to donate to multisig LOL

I thought part of "setting up properly" means having many wallets

so maybe instead of blaming it on binance, should just blame selsta for not spoonfeeding them how to properly set their wallet that they having issues with for years now

like, +1 for sech1 to be the new insider at binance helping them set their infrastructure :3

Getmonero.org website download link for GUI-Linux points to version 0.18.0 while the hash file says there is a 0.18.1 version

clear browser cache

Same

Also happens with CLI 64bit Linux

I only found out because doing sha25sum provided different hashs xD

then it's cached somewhere between you and getmonero.org

because I see 0.18.1 on all download links there

Morpheus: im seeing 18.1 as well

I was using brave browser, cleared the cache and it was pointing to 18.0. Now used firefox and it sent me 18.1

Strange, but thanks 👍️

<MajesticBank> "10) It takes computing power..." <- Eh not really

Unless you use rpc-pay :P

liliana914: hey

Hi

thank you

so how to increase to 105 GB for blockchain

it say it’s at zero now

at this point am not sure if it did download a part of the blockchain and made the drive full or if its an other issue, would suggest trying something else, that instead of syncing the blockchain, you would launch the gui in "simple mode"

How to launch on simple mode

at least just to make sure you indeed received your funds, else, syncing the whole thing would be taking hours

If you have no space left on the drive, delete the blockchain and sync it again using

--prune-blockchain

Also, I highly recommend against simple mode. ...

well Kraken verified I did receive funds I just don’t see it in wallet

Use advanced mode and enter a trusted node

where do I access advance node

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> If you have no space left on the drive, delete the blockchain and sync it again using

>

> --prune-blockchain

i would also recommend against, is more a suggestion as a first step

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> If you have no space left on the drive, delete the blockchain and sync it again using... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…5a4bcf7a2c57ab31cac74e0297594dfe0d2)

liliana914[m]: when you launching the gui, it should prompt you with those options

How to delete blockchain?

by default it should be in the folder "$HOME/.bitmonero/"

but make sure you backed up your seed before doing any change

If you have the transaction id you can scan for it deploy-preview-1996--barolo-time-75…esources/user-guides/scan-txid.html

Without having to sync (assuming its the only transfer)

like, writing on a piece of paper the 25 words "mnemonic seed"

how to back up. Ugh. I know so very little. Can we talk on phone instead? This is frustrating

I’ve tried the mnemonic seed

when you created the wallet, i think it should have prompted you with 25 words, that's what has to be written down somewhere

yes, I have it

alrighty so that's backed up then, all good

so now

can you check the folder "$HOME/.bitmonero/"?

i dont know much about macs but that's where the blockchain data would be stored by default apparently

oh it here. The money made in. It worked

\o/

thank you! Somehow that synchronized thing did it

awesome!

am so confused rn like, thought it wasnt synced up (so guessing maybe you're in simple mode? idk LOL)

either way, glad you got the thingy \o/

now the money just stays there till I send to someone right?

<BelugaTrap> money?

yup, and those 25 words you written down is the way to restore them from anywhere

<BelugaTrap> i like money xd

I need do nothing else until I want to send funds?

monero not money

<BelugaTrap> ohhhh

dont think so, if its showing there then to send it should do without issues

<BelugaTrap> well i still like monero

thanks so much for taking the time to help me💖

spacekitty420 @spacekitty420 :catgirl.cloud: what wallet app / program were they using previously, if not not monero-gui,

idk, discussion started in the dev channel and pretty sure it always was the gui

like there was some errors or something about storage space maybe or folder being read-only which i have no idea how folder perms are working on mac :/

Okok. 👍 all good. Was just going to say "if it was some 🚮 wallet, to send the funds to a new seed"

But no need 👌

When sending money from external Monero-Wa

Monero -wallet-gui does one immediately send all unlocked balance of the account? I would think so after you put exact amount in the amount box. But on top of amount box there is what says “amount with number 8 sideways - what does that mean?

Send all (infinity symbol)

It's an infinity symbol - it means "send the entire available balance"

(Minus the tx fee)

well my available balance is different than what I want to send

Then you type in the amount

So that’s confusing

Yes, so dont use the infinity symbol

once I type amount do I press that infinity sign

dont use it ok

thank you