why does it take 18 minutes before my crypto is spendable ? is it a part of keeping everything anon ?

also why does it take so long for my wallet to sync ?

are you syncing your wallet or your daemon?

selsta: yeah

what would be a good restore heighy

it has to be a height before you first received a transaction

if you first used monero in August 2021 you can enter 2021-08-01

selsta: okay thanks

which wallet mode are you using currently?

assuming you are using monero-gui?

the lightest one

yeah gui

but nevermind I am synched now

ok, it might be better if you manually set a remote node

but why do I have to wait 20 min after I receive funds

selsta: I read it said there is no difference for me

usually yes, but since we forked there are a lot of nodes that didn't update which means it is currently possible that you connect to an outdated node

follow the steps in this comment, it takes less than a minute to change: monero-project/monero-gui #3989#issuecomment-1214412781

selsta: I am connected to a good node right now

synched

The 20 minute lock is because when monero blocks reorganize (because of network latency), the transactions in the reorg'd blocks may end up referring to decoys that no-longer exist. That would make the transactions invalid and they'd be silently discarded which would be terribly confusing for new users.

To prevent transactions from getting silently discarded, users are forced to wait 20 minutes before spending so that a reorg would have to be 10 blocks deep to invalidate transactions.

> <@busyboredom:monero.social> The 20 minute lock is because when monero blocks reorganize (because of network latency), the transactions in the reorg'd blocks may end up referring to decoys that no-longer exist. That would make the transactions invalid and they'd be silently discarded which would be terribly confusing for new users.

>

> To prevent transactions from getting silently discarded, users are forced to wait 20 minutes before spending so that a reorg would have to be 10 blocks deep to invalidate transactions.

okay cool

bullskey[m]: what does it say as the height in the bottom left corner? 2694822?

or 2688... ?

exactlu

selsta: that one

ok, it seems like you are connected to a good node currently but if you start to have issues try to follow the steps in the link

damn its gonna take a while to churn then

If I have to wait 20 mins after each transaction

you should not churn anyway frequently in a row, that is bad for privacy

my xmr dissapeared after i changed the date of height

it has to sync

ok cool

selsta: how so ?

I want to churn since the xmr is received from kucoin

wouldnt it help privacy

it would be bad for privacy to frequently churn in a row

from what I have read if you want to churn at least wait a day or two inbetween

selsta: what about price fluctuation during those days

i don't see how it is related

well

what if the token crashes while I am waiting to churn

i don't know what you are planning to do exactly

if you want to sell you can just send them to the exchange

ok

<joshhavepigdog> What would happen if Monero’s tx count spiked really really high, mass adoption, given current upload / bandwidth constraints?

<joshhavepigdog> I am familiar with the Blockchain size limitation. It’s pretty linear and easy to calculate with math.

what do you mean with what would happen? i assume nodes without a good internet connection or slow hardware would fall behind

it would also take a bit until the dynamic block size increases

<joshhavepigdog> 1,369,863 tx per day would lead to the blockchain expanding by 1 terabyte per year which is a reasonable upper bound estimate until SSD space increases or gets cheaper

<joshhavepigdog> Yes I’m referring to how a large uptick in transactions would affect nodes given modern day bandwidth constraints.

<joshhavepigdog> How would this affect the network?

it does not really, but the network would become more centralized with fewer nodes

<joshhavepigdog> Would tx’s get dropped from blocks? Would txs/blocks get propagated or mined more slowly?

<joshhavepigdog> What would be the negative consequences

blocks would not get mined more slowly

<joshhavepigdog> Yes, but I don’t think the centralization of nodes would be a problem (at least regarding storage space)

if blocks are full it might take a bit until your transaction is confirmed, or you have to pay a higher fee

<joshhavepigdog> Selsta, you are big brain relative to me. How does bandwidth / upload constraints affect Monero network / nodes

<joshhavepigdog> Yep I see what you mean regarding full blocks

<joshhavepigdog> And I think I have a decent understanding of SSDs, tx count, and chain size expansion.

luckily there won't be mass adoption from one day to another, so the network has time to grow and whatever inefficiencies in software exist can slowly be improved

<joshhavepigdog> It would lead to centralization, but the price of Monero would likely have gone up considerably by then

<joshhavepigdog> I will run that node if the chain actually gets that big.

<joshhavepigdog> I agree

<joshhavepigdog> I’m just trying to reduce my ignorance regarding Monero as much as possible

monero transactions are about 5-6 times larger than bitcoin transactions, and they take longer to verify

<joshhavepigdog> I remember ArticMine said chain size expansion and upload / bandwidth are the bottlenecks. I don’t understand how bandwidth constraints Monero’s network

<joshhavepigdog> Ah verification

since monero has a dynamic block size it has more throughput than bitcoin

<joshhavepigdog> That was the part he was talking about

<joshhavepigdog> Verification and bandwidth

<joshhavepigdog> I follow what you are saying so far

all blocks and transactions have to be verified

<joshhavepigdog> So what is the constraint bandwidth places upon verification time? What negative consequences would be observed in practice if this bottleneck were reached?

<joshhavepigdog> I will read that article too

<joshhavepigdog> Thank you for taking time to respond to me

<joshhavepigdog> I am small brain compared to you guys

it is difficult to say what exactly happens when limits get reached

This thread says ~8 tx/s with every Mbit/s connection speed.

I don't think this will be a problem for quite some time

monerobull[m]: Outdated data btw, not sure if transactions are smaller or larger nowadays

<joshhavepigdog> The chainbloat argument is FUD against Monero in my opinion.

Transaction grew with last update afaik (more ring sigs)

<joshhavepigdog> My mindset when looking at Crypto is that it is effectively a competition between Bitcoin and Monero.

bridgerton[m]: True, storage is cheap, and monero can be used on HDD for nodes as long as they initially sync with SSD

<joshhavepigdog> Monero does have unique risk factors associated with it, but so does Bitcoin. There are tradeoffs with using either chain. I just think Monero dunks on Bitcoin.

> <@bridgerton:matrix.org> <joshhavepigdog> The chainbloat argument is FUD against Monero in my opinion.

* True, storage is cheap, and monero can be used on HDD for nodes as long as they initially sync with SSD

Can also easily use tierced storage (like nvme cache + array of HDD)

<joshhavepigdog> Is that really practical though? To sync with SSD, then move it to an HDD? Wouldn’t this still be slow to write to the HDD?

bridgerton[m]: You do it one time, than you leave you're node 24/7 online

<joshhavepigdog> Also what would happen when that user wants to sync new blocks via SSD but the chain is stored on a separate HDD?

It would probably be possible to sync using SSD as cache and save everything but some of the most recent 8th of the chain on a hdd if we really needed it

you can't do that

bridgerton[m]: Tierced storage, if you use Linux learn LVM for example

selsta: Not yet

Or is it literally impossible?

s/LVM/LVM2/

<joshhavepigdog> Alright

anyway, having an SSD will be important when we have huge TPS

<joshhavepigdog> This is complicated haha

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah HDD and Monero seem like a bad idea lol

verification requires fast disk speed

That way you use both SSD and HDD, sdd used for cache, eventually it get stored to HDD (plus it cache the most used HDD data)

<joshhavepigdog> Selsta I want your personal opinion on hypothetical situation

s/sdd/SSD/

We already have pruned nodes that get data they don't have from different nodes, why wouldn't it possible to get data you don't have on SSD from your hdd?

<joshhavepigdog> If Monero got adoption and the size of the blockchain was 8 TB in 2030, how heavily do you think this would affect people running Monero nodes? How many nodes would go offline?

Not a whole lot

pruned nodes only get data from other nodes during the initial sync

<joshhavepigdog> I would trust Selsta

<joshhavepigdog> They are maintainer

bridgerton[m]: Considering a 16TB drive cost about 300-350$ right now

luigi is maintainer

monerobull[m]: Initial syncing would suck

<joshhavepigdog> They are built different. Huge brain

RavFX[m]: SSDs?

monerobull[m]: Tierced storage

joshhavepigdog: I can't predict this

That's price for HDD

Get a 1TB drive or something for the fast layer

I don't know how reality will look like in 2030 lol

<joshhavepigdog> If you had to predict it

* a 1TB SSD drive or

<joshhavepigdog> Let’s say Monero’s blockchain is 8 Terabytes in 2030 and an 8 Terabyte SSD costs $1000 USD (due to the bankers doubling the money supply every now and again lol)

well hardware will likely improve in the next 8 years so I don't think 8TB storage are a problem

<joshhavepigdog> How much would this impact node centralization

<joshhavepigdog> Given this hypothetical situation, even if Monero expands by 1 TB per year we are still fine

<joshhavepigdog> Selsta, wouldn’t you agree that the blockchain size increasing too rapidly argument is pretty far fetched even for Monero?

<joshhavepigdog> At least over the next decade.

I don't worry about it

<joshhavepigdog> I mean adoption would have to go up about 30 X for it to even reach 1 TB per year in chain expansion

If usage would rapidly increase, you'd think price also does and all people currently running nodes would probably be very rich at that point

<joshhavepigdog> What about the verification and bandwidth though?

<joshhavepigdog> I’m less familiar with the technicalities there.

<joshhavepigdog> Yes I will run a node when I am not a poverty stricken pea brain.

<joshhavepigdog> Then I will be a wealthy pea brain

<monerobull[m]> "monero.stackexchange.com..." <- Look up how big transactions are currently and do some math? Nobody really bothers since it's a really far out there scenario

a lot of the people who say "monero grows too fast" still think we have the huge transactions we had before bulletproofs

monero transactions used to be 50x larger than bitcoin transactions, now they are 5-6x larger

Also notice that spending Bitcoin "privately" requires about the same amount of chain-space as a single monero transaction

<joshhavepigdog> Monerobull, thanks I am aware of that. Thanks to Seth for his work

<joshhavepigdog> Thanks for the replies Selsta

<joshhavepigdog> nodes can handle ~8 tx/s with every Mbit/s connection speed

<joshhavepigdog> What is a mbit/s ?

Well no, that was the case in 2016

Assuming an average transaction size of around 15 KiB, nodes can handle ~8 tx/s with every Mbit/s connection speed.

<joshhavepigdog> Is this download or upload speed? I’m only familiar with megabyte download speed or upload?

like I said we don't have 15KB tx anymore

bridgerton[m]: 1MB/s

> <@bridgerton:matrix.org> <joshhavepigdog> What is a mbit/s ?

* 120KiB/s

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah we have 2kb approximately

<joshhavepigdog> And 1 megabyte = 8 megabits

so 60 transactions per 1MBit/s

We just about did 1.something TPS during the big transaction storm right before the fork

<joshhavepigdog> Assuming most people in the world have 3 megabyte = 24 megabit upload speed, Then 24 x 60 = 1,440 tx per second

<joshhavepigdog> I feel like I butchered the conversion somewhere

<joshhavepigdog> I’m not sure if internet is measured in megabyte per minute or per second usually

it is advertised as MBit

as that's that larger number

Bit is 8 times larger than byte

Right?

8 bit = 1 byte

<joshhavepigdog> I’m going to do an internet speed test to see if I can get to the bottom of this

Ah fuck

I mean ISPs rather advertise 100Mbit/s than 12.5MB/s

<joshhavepigdog> I’m not sure

<joshhavepigdog> What is Mbps?

selsta: Nothing is as bad as the shit they pull with storage mediums :P

<joshhavepigdog> Is that Megabytes or megabits?

bridgerton[m]: Small b is bit

Big B is byte (8 bit)

<joshhavepigdog> What do you guys get in “Mbps”?

MB is not equel to MiB

s/equel/equal/

<joshhavepigdog> Allegedly at my friends house I got 27 Mbps download speed

25 up 10 down

Gigabit fiber would be 1000 up, right?

s/up/down/

<joshhavepigdog> I’m talking about people in India and stuff lol

monerobull[m]: Depend of the ISP

but yeah, it's common for 1Gbits

<joshhavepigdog> Because the thought experiment is trying to determine the affects of Bandwidth, mass adoption and if Network can handle it

Man, i can't wait till i get fiber

<joshhavepigdog> Is the bandwidth limitation in Monero regarding the upload or download speed?

<joshhavepigdog> “so 60 transactions per 1MBit/s”

I would assume both but download is more important

<joshhavepigdog> If only I could figure out how many Mbits/second I’m getting lol

<joshhavepigdog> I’ll assume the 27 number I saw was Mbit/second

<joshhavepigdog> But I’ll assume most people in the third world who are in difficult financial circumstances running Monero nodes get 5 mbit/second download speed.

<joshhavepigdog> 5 Mbit/s x 60 tx/s = 300 tx/s = 18,000 tx per minute = 1,080,000 tx per hour

<joshhavepigdog> I might be overthinking this small hypothetical scenario lol

Even as a third world country you can't get much worse in regards to internet than Germany and Germany has some of the most nodes in the world ;)

bridgerton[m]: Depend where in majority world countries, quite variable.

Lot of Africa have very long Internet.

Lot of Latin America have very fast internet.

But Africa try to improve there network afaik.

<joshhavepigdog> Basically Monero network today could probably handle 500k to 1 mill transactions per day after the blocks expand enough from the dynamic block algo.

s/long/slow/

We don't even do 1 million a month right now so i think that's pretty decent

<joshhavepigdog> More than 1 million transactions per day starts to get uncertain in terms of both storage on SSDs for poor people in 3rd world running nodes + having enough bandwidth to support many tx per minute.

bridgerton[m]: Yeah, and don't forget the max bandwidth utilization won't hit that often.

Even if some node will lag a little, once the top of the blob is past, it will catch up

Like network peak hour

<joshhavepigdog> I’m stupid so I have a hard time understanding how bandwidth would harm the network

<joshhavepigdog> Even if one node fails to relay a transaction or transactions, other nodes with better bandwidth will submit those txs from the mempool or to the mempool right?

<joshhavepigdog> I guess since you are only connected to one node when you relay your tx it is dependent on the bandwidth of that single node

it does not harm the network

<joshhavepigdog> Whether it is your own node or connecting to a remote node

<joshhavepigdog> Is my above analysis correct?

<joshhavepigdog> What is the worst case outcome for someone who experiences a bandwidth limitation from a node they are connected to and relaying a tx to Selsta?

Transaction would probably take a bit longer

<joshhavepigdog> Also if everything we have said is true, then isn’t the whole node centralization thing kind of just a boogeyman

there are cryptocurrencies where you can't run a node at home because they have insane hardware requirements

bridgerton[m]: It always was, to keep Bitcoin transactions expensive and give L2 like Blockstream a reason to exist

<joshhavepigdog> But it’s not like your tx would fail? Or even if it did fail it’s not like you’d lose those funds? For a tx can only be in one’s own wallet at generation or in the mempool or mined in a block. There is no other void it can disappear to.

<joshhavepigdog> ^ right?

<joshhavepigdog> Like ethereum and solana right?

Nodes could be improved, to be about to configure p2p and rpc max bandwidth.

that way some could be reserved to receive from RPC & rebroadcasting there TX

s/about/able/

<joshhavepigdog> But if our above reasoning is correct then this wouldn’t start to affect Monero until we start hitting 1.5 to 2 million transactions per day right?

Except for ADSLs in africa, I think it should not be a problem.

<joshhavepigdog> I understand that there are some crypto currencies like Ethereum that are a pain in the tail to run at home, near impossible, but this can’t/is very very unlikely to happen to Monero this decade right?

bridgerton[m]: It's not the same thing

Yeah

We don't do smart contracts

<joshhavepigdog> Africa has larger problems that internet and crypto at the moment in my opinion

<joshhavepigdog> But yes crypto is important to solve the profligate antics of African shit fiat currencies lol

<joshhavepigdog> I understand that Monero doesn’t do smart contracts

<joshhavepigdog> I’m trying to understand why what happens to Ethereum with node centralization can’t/ won’t happen to Monero, at least in the next 10 years

If we actually got to that point, I'm sure there are enough (now wealthy monero enthusiasts) who would pay for hosting nodes in different countries datacenters

<joshhavepigdog> That was what I was thinking as well

<joshhavepigdog> But even then

<joshhavepigdog> Perhaps I’m just overthinking things and wasting your guys time

<joshhavepigdog> I appreciate the educational content

bridgerton[m]: You kinda are, none of this will matter for years

But it's fun:)

<joshhavepigdog> Yes but people could’ve said the same thing about the halving and tail emission

<joshhavepigdog> And look at things now

with a pruned node still being less than 60gb i don't worry much about scaling currently

<joshhavepigdog> The “it won’t matter for years” argument is kind of bad thinking in my opinion

<joshhavepigdog> Understood

Just like it didn't matter when people discussed this in the 2016 thread

<joshhavepigdog> We should kiss the tx_extra field good bye

Not really

<joshhavepigdog> Why not?

<joshhavepigdog> The Serai guy is the only guy who wants it lol

Stuff like serai needs it

<joshhavepigdog> Seems like unnecessary attack surface for when Law Enforcement just spams the bee movie in the tx extra field lol

Hello Monero Community. I wanted to ask something, hoping someone could give me some light. I updated my monero gui, and also updated the trezor firmware to 2.5.2. A week ago, I found my funds in monero gui but couldnt send to edge wallet because , i was told, i needed to wait for the trezor firmware update. Now that it is updated i get the following messages from the monero gui wallet:

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah he is the only one lol

agus10[m]: which wallet mode are you using?

<joshhavepigdog> Don’t know anything about hardware wallets sorry

you can check in Settings -> info

<bridgerton[m]> "<joshhavepigdog> Africa has..." <- Inflation is a big one

bridgerton[m]: You still need to pay for that

<joshhavepigdog> You mean people have to pay more in fees if they spam the tx extra field?

> <@agus10:matrix.org> Hello Monero Community. I wanted to ask something, hoping someone could give me some light. I updated my monero gui, and also updated the trezor firmware to 2.5.2. A week ago, I found my funds in monero gui but couldnt send to edge wallet because , i was told, i needed to wait for the trezor firmware update. Now that it is updated i get the following messages from the monero gui wallet:

>

There's quite the active discussion going on here right now, maybe repost to #monero-support:monero.social

<joshhavepigdog> To be honest I shat my pants when I saw the tx extra field

<joshhavepigdog> The feds just have to spam that field lol

bridgerton[m]: Obviously

<joshhavepigdog> I didn’t know that

The bigger your transaction, the more you pay

<joshhavepigdog> Or I thought it was like 5 Pennie’s instead of 1 penny tx fee

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah but I don’t think it would stop a motivated attack on Monero’s network

<joshhavepigdog> Chain

selsta: Hi selsta, I see it says the simple mode

agus10[m]: try to set a custom remote node, follow the steps in this comment: monero-project/monero-gui #3989#issuecomment-1214412781

<joshhavepigdog> Monero’s true merit will depend on its ability to outlast Bitcoin and law enforcement totalitarian crackdowns in the future.

selsta: will check it out.. thanks

<joshhavepigdog> It’s already one the utility race as evidenced in Onion land

<joshhavepigdog> Selsta I’m sorry for spamming you, but what are the most severe risks to Monero in your opinion? Try to make your strongest case against Monero. What would it be?

<bridgerton[m]> "<joshhavepigdog> Also if..." <- It’s a boogeyman how?

<joshhavepigdog> Lack of utility? Not strong enough to resist a gov crackdown? Bug exploited?

We can get spammed with or without tx_extra. With tx_extra it would be significantly easier to detect what is spam and what isn't and stuff like serai wouldn't need to find workarounds

<joshhavepigdog> Shouldn’t tx extra field be limited in size though?

bridgerton[m]: Community infighting driving out developers

<joshhavepigdog> To avoid chain bloat

<joshhavepigdog> That already happened to my boy ooo

bridgerton[m]: Probably? Doesn't really matter right now

<joshhavepigdog> He despawned lol

having one large tx_extra is better than someone sending two transactions to fit the same data in tx_extra

transactions cost verification time, tx_extra can be skipped

<joshhavepigdog> Found critical bugs in multisig and dipped lol

bridgerton[m]: Eh

He claimed he found them and didn't disclose anything because he wasn't offered enough money, right?

<joshhavepigdog> That is decent argument in favor of tx extra Selsta

he disclosed them

<joshhavepigdog> I still want to see Selsta Strawman of Monero

<joshhavepigdog> He seemed OP

he also programmed the fixes

<joshhavepigdog> But super edgy

<joshhavepigdog> And got mad and left

selsta: Didn't he say he had more though?

but he found another bug and was unhappy with how we proceeded

<joshhavepigdog> Maybe he is still working on GitHub though lol. I only remember seeing his comments in the matrix server

<joshhavepigdog> He was OP but got triggered if you guys didn’t agree with his plan of action

joshhavepigdog: I don't think lack of utility is an issue

<joshhavepigdog> What is your strongest anti-Monero argument?

bugs are always possible, and with regulations.. now idea what will happen

no

<joshhavepigdog> I like Monero by the way I am not trying to make a fuss. I just want to hear your guys, the devs perspective.

Dude, if there were any deal breakers in monero, we wouldn't waste our time here

<joshhavepigdog> Even with regulations

<joshhavepigdog> Wouldn’t people still run nodes?

Yes

Filesharing itself isn't illegal, were all just sharing a big database among friends

<joshhavepigdog> The difference between Monero and Tornado cash is that even if Monero gets OFAC sanctioned people still run Monero nodes in other countries or as hidden services. Or is this assumption unlikely/flawed. Basically if all US clearnet nodes go offline the network should still persist

You can still use tornado cash

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah but OFWC and tyrants don’t care about that bull

<joshhavepigdog> Yes

<joshhavepigdog> I know that

Eventhough the biggest pool stopped mining tornado transactions, big RPC providers block it and there's no frontend. People still use it

<joshhavepigdog> So to summarize Selsta, you see a government crackdown and a bug as the primary risk factors that Monero faces?

<joshhavepigdog> I know this bull

yes, monero would ideally need more devs

<joshhavepigdog> My point is that I would think Monero would be even more difficult to clamp down on because the base layer has such a wide variety of nodes in different jurisdictions

It is

Josh, ooo didnt get driven out -_=

He literally left to go work on bp++, multisig and p2p

<joshhavepigdog> So Selsta if I’m inferring your statement correctly your concern is that Monero’s devs are located primarily in a single geographical location leading to a somewhat centralized point of failure?

<joshhavepigdog> So he ascended to realm of the gods?

What

no, more devs to find and fix bugs

<joshhavepigdog> Ooo my boy

or researchers

<joshhavepigdog> So you aren’t worried about O’Brien and the thought police getting you guys like that Tornado Cash dev?

<joshhavepigdog> If I was smart enough I would

<joshhavepigdog> But I can an idiot

This is so stupid

<joshhavepigdog> A meer simpleton

And reviewers

well let's see what they will charge him with

selsta: Who is creating training programs to make that happen?

Tornado cash guy could have been arrested for actual money laundering, it's not really known yet

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah you guys have better OPSEC than that guy anyways (probably)

monerobull[m]: no, only for writing code

But everyone is like "uh he definitely was unjustly arrested"

<joshhavepigdog> I’m a bit worried about Mr. Seraphis though 👀👀👀

selsta: Are we sure of that?

<joshhavepigdog> That he could get kidnapped or whacked

they didn't charge him yet with a crime

Are you sure?

Also arrested his wife

they said while writing code is not illegal, torando cash has the sole purpose of money laundering

ofrnxmr[m]: when did they arrest his wife?

Nvm read the headline wrong

<joshhavepigdog> The feds paid off the FIOD for sure

<selsta> "agus10: try to set a custom..." <- Selsta, I am following the instructions. I reopened the wallet, selected settings - node- remote node and is asking meI f I want to stop local node or keep ir running in the background.. I suppose I force stop it, right?

<joshhavepigdog> Not for sure, but I strongly suspect it

agus10[m]: Yes

selsta: He was taking fees. That makes him complicit in a few different ways

agus10[m]: Yes, stop node

agus10:

You can stop the local node

<joshhavepigdog> Don’t you guys think gradually more developers will migrate to Monero?

Not without money

<joshhavepigdog> I understand Selsta’s concerns and I agree.

We literally can not predict something like this

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah it’s because the market is stupid

Poaching devs is easy for companies like zec

<joshhavepigdog> If Monero had a higher price you developers would be in a better financial position if you held some of your XMR

<joshhavepigdog> But instead they like USD lol

aremor[m]: we will have to wait for what they charge him with

ZEC hired some regulatory lobbyist now from what I have seen lol

<joshhavepigdog> ZEC has infinite Israeli money glitch

<joshhavepigdog> Monero does not

bridgerton[m]: Don't even need that

That snowden marketing money

They have a literal printer

<joshhavepigdog> I don’t know if CCS will loosen with projects they fund.

<joshhavepigdog> Some CCS proposals that have been funded were god awful though

Loosen?

<joshhavepigdog> I mean pay you guys more

It pays what people need

<joshhavepigdog> Isn’t the issue that you guys don’t think devs aren’t getting paid enough?

devs get paid

<joshhavepigdog> I know

Its that zec can say "10 people, 250k a year. Were sponsoring right out of college LFG"

Monero cannot do that

Monero cannot offer 500k bounties for criticsls

<joshhavepigdog> I think the best thing for Monero is adoption. Once adoption goes up, price will go up, once price goes up, your guys XMR holdings will go up. It will be in the news and will catch the attention of other devs.

Exsctlym.

<joshhavepigdog> I just can’t believe how cheap it is

<joshhavepigdog> It’s mind boggling

Goal: get 6 people to hold 1 monero

<joshhavepigdog> I got you guys covered in that regard 😉

<joshhavepigdog> Diamond hands

bridgerton[m]: Stop

<joshhavepigdog> No

Moonboys gtfo

<joshhavepigdog> Saving is glorious. Especially saving the best money I know of.

<joshhavepigdog> No

<joshhavepigdog> Moonboy is bad

<joshhavepigdog> I agree

<joshhavepigdog> But I am sophisticates moon boy

joshhavepigdog: That's really not an up to date view on TX extra. Sure, I need it for Serai, yet so does another similar project. It's used in merge mining, so we had a proposal to keep it for miner TXs. koe believes it should be kept to keep the protocol flexible.

<joshhavepigdog> I am like the people who diamond handed gold in the middle of the Great Depression in the 1930s

<joshhavepigdog> Infinite IQ

Thhe main problem is that removing TX extra doesn't remove arbitrary data. It removes using extra for arbitrary data.

Not talking about NGU

Talking about if people own monero, they can use it

I am kinda curious how many monero contributors are financially independent. I would love to spend more time contributing in this space, but I need regular paychecks to support my household and CCS proposals just don't cut it.

<joshhavepigdog> I agree kayaba

Its not NGU to convince people to use monero

<joshhavepigdog> How many kb per tx would you add when using a Monero tx with Serai

I like to phrase it as having a gun to the community's head for how ridiculous it is, yet the truth is I don't have a gun to the community's head. I'm just ready to pull the trigger on said gun

... we're discussing ~100b

BusyBoredom[m]: magicgrants.org/funds/monero

And you can add XMR to Serai so you don't need to keep doing TXs on XMR if you want that trade off

I also did advocate for a 255 byte limit and more aggressive fee scaling

The issue is when fees exceed the cost of adding outputs

You can get several bytes out of outputs. It's just inefficient.

<joshhavepigdog> I see

So you pay more, because you don't have 100% efficiency, but if you pay more for arb data, the inefficiency may be the cheaper additional expense

<joshhavepigdog> Basically you are trying to be polite about it

<joshhavepigdog> It makes some sense

I even helped mooo add arb data to their work lol

*though they did it in a way not increasing TX size

<joshhavepigdog> 100 bytes per tx

Can I have the beemovie tx pls

monerobull[m]: It was posted in monero-research-lab a while back when we had someone write IRC logs to TX extra

*I brought it up and that discussion caused someone to do that as a protest

<joshhavepigdog> 100 bytes = 0.1 kb. That’s really not that much if that’s all you need for Serai per tx associated with Serai

... that's a bit legitimizing of a spam attack but it's not wrong

<joshhavepigdog> There is also the fingerprinting issue associated with those txs

The only decent proposal I've seen to prevent arb data is for the proposal to move to 2-2 but there's still solutions there, and worst case, you use multiple TXs

And then the issue with 2-2 is it's 2-2. It nukes the ability to create multiple outputs .-.

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah tx extra should be constrained to a finite number of bytes imo

Right. Steganography isn't immediately identifiable.

Its not, not a lot either

Kaya, is the cost if the added weight proportional in fee/byte

So that's a prop in that case

Or would the fee cost more

*pro

<joshhavepigdog> The devs shouldn’t have to ask a person kindly to not forward an IRC chat to the tx extra field lol

ofrnxmr[m]: I believe TX extra counts as 1 byte as any other item in the TX and the only part explicitly weighted more is the BP clawback system, yet check with ArticMine

joshhavepigdog: Still less than 255 bytes lol

Tbc, I wrote a proposal for steganography on outputs which would be indistinguishable. It's just also a spam attack

So no financial cost to using large tx extras?

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah I thought your DEX would be causing crazy bloat

<joshhavepigdog> But actually it’s quite small

<joshhavepigdog> Only 0.1kb per tx

Beyond being inefficient with regards to bytes, it forces wallet scans

And that's why we'll have adding XMR to Serai, outside of pools, so if you want to frequently interact, you aren't spamming Monero

<joshhavepigdog> I don’t care much about you doxing Monero txs associated with Serai

Because sure, it's a trade off. You no longer have the XMR private key and I won't hide that

<joshhavepigdog> Hurts ring size by one at worst case

But if you were already going to do it to a CEX... least we can do is not spam Monero

Yeah, bigger problem with Serai is we publish view keys

It's why we're not doing the 0-cost steganography. It reduces sender privacy.

Imo

Of should

1. Cost extra or as much as the fee/byte of the tx

2. Not be include in the block size limit (like segwit)

The clawback weight only applies to transactions with more than 2 outputs. This was done to price the additional verification time.

ofrnxmr[m]: It does cost per byte

It's just equivalent to any other byte in the TX

So 100 byte TX with 10 byte extra? 110 byte TX

<joshhavepigdog> I’m not sure Serai will succeed.

Okok

<joshhavepigdog> I listened to the interview with Doug

ArticMine: Right. My comment was that that's only exceptional case

I thought you had said it doesnt

Any way to "segwit" it?

<joshhavepigdog> It is interesting and if it only costs 0.1 kb per tx it’s not that bad

ofrnxmr[m]: Off-chain solutions and incredibly complicated due to the chicken and egg problem.

I did consider an IPFS server yet there's questions on data availability along with linkage along with privacy along with spam attacks :/

<joshhavepigdog> Yeah you mentioned that in your interview with Doug

My take is that this can be looked at if the overall consensus is to move all tx pricing to node relay in-order to address tx extra

Whereas Monero has 'solved' spam attacks, embedding links it properly, available for as long as the TX is, and there's no chicken/egg

<joshhavepigdog> It’s not like I can stop Kayaba even if I disagree with him anyways lol🤣

I mean, on chain

Meaning. Tx extra 100bytes is excluded when calculating the 300kb block limit.

I don't personally care for a hard fork except to nuke it :p

<joshhavepigdog> Kayaba what makes Serai unique relative to current exchange options in the ecosystem?

bridgerton[m]: Instant

If nuked, what would you propose for sersi, merge mining etc?

Sorry if im making you repeat yourself

<joshhavepigdog> Why would one want a Serai?

bridgerton[m]: I want it

<joshhavepigdog> It’s an instant exchange that requires less trust than something like Changenow or Sideshift?

joshhavepigdog: No centralized custody of funds with a transparent ecosystem verifiable at any moment to be intact and proper

Basically, yes

There's also ther ability to provide liquidity, receiving trading fees on an otherwise static asset. While this has its own questions regarding ILP, most people seem to appreciate the opportunity

<joshhavepigdog> Didn’t you say that people would basically have to lock their funds though or give up their private key?

It will require a a HF to reverse the weights and include tx extra in the penalty. Then we can price for example tx over 3000 bytes and with more than 2 outputs by for example requiring 4x the min node relay fee

It also provides large amounts of liquidity without restriction

bridgerton[m]: Only if you provide liquidity

<joshhavepigdog> I can’t remember but I was dubious of your custody of funds claim

"lock" - No. "give up their private key" - No. Transfer to Serai? Yes.

In any case I will comment on these option in the Github isse on tx extra

The Serai network does have control over the funds and I've never commented otherwise

<joshhavepigdog> So then they are losing access to their Monero

I've commented there's no centralized custody and that it's fault tolerant, and secure under game theory.

<joshhavepigdog> It’s not non-custodial staking

No

Yeah, that doesn't exist :p

<RavFX[m]> "Yes, stop node" <- ok done. Now can I send my funds to another wallet or have to do something else?

Dude, look up liquidity pools

<joshhavepigdog> It’s staking as best as you know it can be done on Monero basically

It's NOT STAKING

We could be exploited, we could have 100% of validators turn malicious, we could...

Also, that ^. It's not staking lol

The key is that we do it at consensus or node relay but not both.

ArticMine: I'd prefer at node relay, so we can impl this whenever, we charge a weighted fee for the TX extra bytes.

<joshhavepigdog> Liquidity pools is an attempt to earn a yield on an asset one owned by locking it up to provide liquidity

It's not locked .-.

<joshhavepigdog> I think that’s how it works at least

You can trigger its removal whenever.

<joshhavepigdog> Then what would stop everyone withdrawing their Monero at inconvient times

Like sure, it's not in your personal wallet while it's in the pool

... nothing?

<joshhavepigdog> Fractional reserve sussssss

... it's not fractional reserve

What

Dude watch the video

You remove it from the pool. It's no longer in our books. You get to withdraw it

You can remove it and withdraw it whenever.

We don't have any timelocks.

Just takes 20 minutes for the Monero TX lol

*and that's not because we add 20 minutes. Monero takes 10 blocks to confirm.

<joshhavepigdog> What’s the incentive for you guys then?

Watch the video

So we only issue Monero TXs on 10 block intervals, when the network's funds are usable once again. So you may get it in the next block or may be waiting.

... the funds in the pool are used as liquidity and can be traded?

People who provide liquidity earn fees?

<joshhavepigdog> How does it benefit Serai? And what would happen if everyone did withdraw? What would incentivize people to provide liquidity in the first place?

If they no longer want to provide liquidity, they remove their liq and can withdraw.

It makes zero sense talking to you about this if you don't understand what a liquidity pool is

If everyone withdraws, everyone can do so. There's no fractional reserve

<joshhavepigdog> Alright it’s more sound then I thought

If everyone withdraws, we don't have users. There's no reason for the network to exist. I guess we just close shop lol

<joshhavepigdog> Requires one to trust Serai though

But yeah, we could have a mass exodus and it wouldn't fail the network.

kayabaNerve: I'd deposit and earn 100% of the fees

I mean, if you want to talk about the economically bonded validators who I'm hoping to get into the hundreds

yep

<joshhavepigdog> I see

<joshhavepigdog> I don’t want to be offensive

you have to trust that 67% of them won't lose money to improperly access Serai's monero

No, it's all good

<joshhavepigdog> Just trying to test the strength of your general idea here

Like it's a bit frustrating lol, just due to you not having experience with liquidity pools

But I'm fine being a bit sarcastic and helping explain ;)

<joshhavepigdog> I come across like that ooo guy, so I don’t want to piss people off

You might want to understand the basic concept of what he's building beforehand though

<joshhavepigdog> Ehh

<joshhavepigdog> Maybe

wat

who say's that

totally different styles of speech

<joshhavepigdog> It’s of little use to me

<joshhavepigdog> I wouldn’t want to part with my XMR

An instant exchanger can arbitrarily decide against you. Serai can't

<joshhavepigdog> Unless purchasing something

An instant exchanger will have additional fees on top of its backend. Serai is both the backend and the service

bridgerton[m]: Ok what if every exchange delists monero

<joshhavepigdog> I see

An instant exchanger market sells on open offers. Serai uses all crypto in the pool to determine trades

You're welcome not to use it, as it's not atomic swaps. I still support atomic swaps accordingly :)

<joshhavepigdog> Then I will have to use Serai if all other exchanges and Local Monero and BISQ and Haveno fail

<joshhavepigdog> I don’t think that will happen though

But for a lot of people, it'll have the UX they want

<joshhavepigdog> I agree

And I hope to best the most moral service providing that UX, without bullshit premines and admin keys

<joshhavepigdog> Fair enough

<joshhavepigdog> You were able to resolve some of my doubts regarding the exchange you want to build

Kek

<joshhavepigdog> And now I know you aren’t going to bomb the chain size with it lol

<joshhavepigdog> Just a small amount per tx which is fine imo

<joshhavepigdog> And clearly you seek to reduce the negative affects on normal users your use of tx extra will have. You are operating from a position of respect for the other users.

and then we do have the option of a one-time Monero TX to use Serai however much you want. It's moving from the instant exchanger model to the exchange model, with different risk accordingly, yet further meets UX options while reducing our impact on Monero

kayabaNerve I actually alike the idea of node relay for this and also I suspect form the Github that is where consensus is heading

kayabaNerve: Wait are you building both?

like

<joshhavepigdog> So Kayaba Serai will be like changenow but with less trust and cheaper and faster and easier UX

And you can earn money if you know the risks

<joshhavepigdog> Yes

monerobull[m]: You can add XMR to Serai as XMR or with SRI to join a liquidity pool. Adding it as XMR enables using XMR on Serai without XMR TXs

<joshhavepigdog> But that is moon boy mentality

Not really

<joshhavepigdog> Diamond hand mentality is knowing you own hard money and can force lower prices onto the market

Its similar to *BTC on ETH, yet with * on Serai using the standing Serai funds model

ArticMine: Yep :)

kayabaNerve: It will have asymmetrical deposits? Nice

monerobull[m]: No

You can add XMR to Serai

and just not add it to a pool

and have XMR on Serai which you can use to trade

<joshhavepigdog> Ok this project is interesting

Ahh ok

<joshhavepigdog> I don’t know if it will work

Somewhat like a L2, except not trustless. Just within Serai's trust model

And then yes, you can add it symmetrically to a LP pool

That's cool, would that make trades cheaper too?

<joshhavepigdog> My mind is changed

No Monero fees + latency

<joshhavepigdog> Better that you try Serai and see what happens

I'm going to ARBITRAAAAAGEEEE

<joshhavepigdog> At first after listening to doug I was quite skeptical

Yeah, primary usecase for the future

Not encouraging Serai XMR for currency lol

... it is 6s final XMR transfers tho

<joshhavepigdog> Would be crazy if people cared about fees that much lol

*Serai XMR, ofc

So what's the reason for no asymmetrical liquidity?

<joshhavepigdog> Haha

monerobull[m]: It doesn't exist?

Eh. Bit of a blunt statement

I mean the fake kind thorchain uses

We are supporting adding liquidity from just a Monero TX

Yet it's converting the XMR into a symmetric position

<joshhavepigdog> Alright I’m going to head out. Sorry for pestering everyone and thanks for your patience in answering my questions.

Have a good one :)

We're also considering a Univ3 model AMM which would allow asymmetric liquidity

So just like thorchain, you could deposit 1 xmr and it turns into 0.5 and ?? SRI, right?

Because LPs are based on finding a curve representing the ratio of the two assets. Univ3 allows not only effecting the magnitude of the curve, yet also the curve itself

... I don't think TC was allowing that for XMR lol

There was drama around this

They may have allowed it, and that was just a discussion, or they may have changed it to allow it

* like thorchain non-xmr pools, you

Or could be a misunderstanding on my end

Better now? Xd

But I'm pretty sure TC didn't want 1 XMR in to 0.5 XMR and X LIQ TXs lol

But yes, Serai will support such TXs

What I'm trying to ask is

Answered without over-representing TC from my understanding of it, while acknowledging I may be behind on the times

;)

I can send Bitcoin to thorchain to provide liquidity. I don't need to put rune in, it buys that automatically

Moin ct

monerobull[m]: Will this be the same for providing liquidity on serai

> But yes, Serai will support such TXs

Ok thanks

agus10[m]: try sending now

kayabaNerve: Imma need a whitepaper or something

PMed a graphic

<selsta> "agus10: try sending now" <- agus10: it is working now Selsta thanks a lot!! Can you please tell me which online wallets you can recommend for monero? apparently edge and exodus are not ready for the new Monero. And the guy wallet, if I change to a new computer, will take days to sync

using a remote node should not take days to sync

you can also copy your wallet file between computers

selsta: Got it so it doing this it will be fast? great thanks

agus10[m]: Depend of the wallet. But with feather wallet yes, if you just copy the wallet file, it will just download and scan the new blocks

Also, if you dont need the tx history you can always create a new wallet and send the balance there

Guys what do you think about cake wallet? I installed it, saw it has a long privacy policy and ditched it for monerujo. Any reason to use it besides cake pay?

<glumanda[m]> "Guys what do you think about..." <- great move. cake is a corporate wallet. ill never use a crypto app with a CEO

selsta & ofrnxmr I got the official gui working with i2pd on android

Indeed it is not fast via i2p and the gui is a bit tricky to use on a google pixel but it works! 😆

ofrnxmr: I prefer i2pd to invizible: it is simpler and only i2pd. i2pd on android did not require any setup, I just pointed the gui to the socks proxy it creates (127.0.0.1:4447) and to the i2p node at bhptjyuaknwxl3gzcseu6g32w4cginopxmuapdnb2fsdutrstcsq.b32.i2p, also aliased as sprout.i2p, the restricted RPC port is 18090, if anyone wants to try/use it, I'm planning to keep that up. Thanks for the help. It is really nice to have

the official gui working on android!

BTW, I use calyx on my pixel.

<jozsef[m]> "Indeed it is not fast via i2p..." <- Wtf 😂

Pretty cool

<jozsef[m]> "ofrnxmr: I prefer i2pd to..." <- Is there an android release of the gui wallet?

jozsef: using the I2PD android app, right? Im not able to get I2PD to install in termux

Yes, I installed it via fdroid.

What are the options besides Monerujo without a CEO?

None

There is cake and rujo for mobile

I cant recommend cake until they merge the fist api pr

Fiat

mymonero?

But I've had connection problems with that to my own node.

<ian.niculescu> @monerobull i missed you bro come on twitter also.

?

Was there a Twitter space?

How does the fee penalty or dynamic blocks work on wow? Considering its has a supply cap

I guess it will break once they reach the cap, since the base reward will be 0 after that point

Not that it will be a problem, given that it's a meme coin with no purpose or value

and they put it 80 years into the future IIRC, so they can just ignore it for now :D

Wow > btc 👾

github.com/orgs/monero-project/repositories?type=all no repo for flyers, posters, stickers, website banners etc. very sad... taiga.getmonero.org/project/sgp-monero-meetup-kit/wiki/flyers looks cool but translations are broken and not easy to fork. nor able to contribute. themonera.art also looks great. could we please make

a repository for information related stuff. or at least make a subdomain for a gitea instance on getmonero.org for this kind of stuff. knowledge is power and its not smart to keep monero hidden like this.

h45eg465hr: github.com/orgs/monero-ecosystem/repositories?type=all

that's what you are looking for

<joshhavepigdog> Does anyone know how easy / difficult it would be for one’s ISP to know one is hosting a Monero node as a hidden service from one’s home?

they see the tor connection, if you dont leak outside would be kinda hard, but they could do traffic correlation attempts (unlikely)

<joshhavepigdog> If my understanding of prior discussion is correct, then your ISP knows when you are accessing Monero software over the clearnet. However, if one’s home node is set up as a hidden service over TOR, how difficult would be for your ISP to figure out?

it depends on how you have set it up

if your node sync over onion etc than its just tor they see

<joshhavepigdog> I would imagine it would at least be slightly more difficult for them to detect, but I also imagine that it is probably possible if they monitor your traffic enough?

github.com/monero-ecosystem/dont-buy-monero-sticker is the only good repo i found. it looks kinda unorganized and trashy

(trashy in terms of marketing)

<joshhavepigdog> Let’s say you have the most secure set up

<joshhavepigdog> Selsta

<joshhavepigdog> Or as secure as possible configurations

<joshhavepigdog> Maybe

<joshhavepigdog> Some of the devs said otherwise in the past though

<joshhavepigdog> That it touches the clearnet even as a hidden service

as i said traffic correlation attacks buts it depends on your location how likely that is

<joshhavepigdog> Every now and then

than ur busted and ur ass may be in jail

it does use exit nodes

or do you mean you sync over tor with non onion nodes? are am i missing some part of the conversation?

<joshhavepigdog> A tangential question is how people in China, a highly adversarial crypto environment, use crypto? Do they use it exclusively over TOR (with or without bridges)? Or do they still run nodes over the clearnet and send tx’s over China’s clear net?

<joshhavepigdog> No I think you understand the question correctly h45

no they dont, bro they use remote nodes or local run nodes that are air gaped in terms of networking. checkout whonix or leek safe vpn setups

<joshhavepigdog> Ah so it does use exit nodes, but wouldn’t think that one’s ISP would necessarily be able to see what’s going on, but exit nodes over clearnet can lead to one’s deanonymixation over TOR in that browsing session

(remote nodes which they connect using tor / vpn)

<joshhavepigdog> H45 you are talking about in China?

in general when you want to hide it

<joshhavepigdog> Even if you use a remote node, your ISP can still detect this if it is done over the clear net

<joshhavepigdog> Ok that makes sense then

yes

selsta Am i wrong about my take on marketing?

<joshhavepigdog> I don’t think having an airgapped Monero full node is possible. Please correct me if I’m wrong here though.

inform yourself. whonix.org

<joshhavepigdog>

taiga.getmonero.org seems crap compared to a gitea instance where we combine marketing stuff with working translations

<joshhavepigdog> Doesn’t this mean that there are 84 full Bitcoin nodes running over China’s clear net?

<joshhavepigdog> And if so doesn’t that mean that people are at least not getting jailed or punished too severely for using BTC in China over the clear net?

bridgerton and? maybe if you dont want to go to jail you better dont use them when ur a citizien

bro what is your point

h45eg465hr: I just meant that the monero-project org on GitHub is mainly used for source code, and marketing is more community related so better for the monero-ecosystem org

taiga is supposed to be a project management software, but I don't like it myself

selsta i get that but i think it would be beneficial to have a bigger marketing repository and not split up directories with parted information

<joshhavepigdog> My point is I’m trying to understand how people use Crypto currency nodes and for tx’s under more adversarial environments than currently exist in the west

<joshhavepigdog> That way I can be prepared and informed of how to act ahead of time.

<joshhavepigdog> My inquiry is how people in China use Monero and Bitcoin. Clear net or TOR with bridges or VPN?

they have ties to the goverment. socialist countries are worse in terms of corruptions they use vpns and avoid goverment honeypots

as regular citizen you better reroute your traffic

<joshhavepigdog> Isn’t TOR better than VPNs in places like China though?

depends

<joshhavepigdog> I see, so your hypothesis is that the bitcoin nodes and clear net actors in China could be comprised / honeypots for the Chinese Communist Party?

<joshhavepigdog> And that all actual users are using TOR or a VPN because they have good OPSEC?

yes

if you want to know more stuff you can ask your favorite search engine

<joshhavepigdog> You guys are search engine, but more intelligent.

hacking your neighbors wifi would be my take and checkout if my opsec is valid in case something goes wrong. lmao you know ur doing it wrong when he is replaced to a concentration camp with a bag over his head while you look outside the window

<joshhavepigdog> You are apex of privacy and Monero knowledge. Google and Reddit suck because it’s mostly bad info and shit posts

<joshhavepigdog> I wonder if there is anyone in here from China that could answer questions lol

spoof your mac before to users which communicated with the router

<joshhavepigdog> They’d probably want to use signal or PGP though

once your connection and operating system is safe these is little to fear

<joshhavepigdog> I’ll do some further research on a search engine later though

ur welcome

<joshhavepigdog> Thanks by the way

<joshhavepigdog> Yes, I know but I’m takkkng about Uber adversarial circumstance where you get a bullet through the head if your ISP tells the local police they caught a whiff of a Monero node.

<joshhavepigdog> Closest to that threat model / situation is China presently

whonix again check it out

use linux btw

<joshhavepigdog> What do you think about TAILS?

hmm depends

<joshhavepigdog> I’m trying to prepare for 1984 tier crackdown and full expropriation of people in the west who don’t have any debt.

<joshhavepigdog> This May seem schizo, but I want to prepare as much as possible

books my friend

or videos they are easier to consume but you will need years of try and error and when shit hits the fence better have weapons and try not to use them as well as supplies

<joshhavepigdog> What books or videos would you recommend I read or watch?

so blue teaming is the best way. up your defense

<joshhavepigdog> I’m somewhat prepped in terms of the things you mentioned.

<joshhavepigdog> What is blue teaming? I’ve never heard of this before.

defense, know how they could attack and prepare

<joshhavepigdog> Any books / videos you’d recommend?

depends, being a doomer makes you depressed and often people see no good anymore or lack hope which is self destructive.

any topic in particular?

i mean the truth is everyone has to think for themself so you can read but you need action to get experience in order to be prepared

do you use linux?

<joshhavepigdog> Sometimes I use linux

selsta github.com/monero-ecosystem/monero-designs its all splitted and not well organized at the moment kinda sad

try making it your daily driver. suffer means pain, creating pain resistance. i mean when you use windows with open eyes you should already have enough of it to start using linux

h45eg465hr: Suggest a fix with a pull request.

things being all over the place is just part of a project like this lol

pull where on the hole github.com/monero-ecosystem

selsta true but we need a noob friendly gateway taiga.getmonero.org is not doing it neither is the github community repo

getmonero.org should have one advertised link to here checkout our cool community designs and bam there is a nice overview of designs only easy to fork easy to contribute in terms of translations etc

bridgerton imporant is that you try to publish as little information as possible. once someone knows something its hard to get rid of it

(linked to your id)

obviously the state could be your friend until people reach power who want to take your rights and the more they know about you the easier you are defended. start using open source end2end encrypted messengers etc. dont buy every crap with paypal. buy with cash / xmr dont use payback programms or just for normal stuff you think will make you looo

look more common. sorry went one page back and got kicked by that :D

silently gaining knowledge is important. and getting the wisdom of using it in the right way. help if your asked and not when you see someone you think he is doing it wrong. many are doomed to ignorance and there is little you can do for them. suggest help but never try to force it on someone

we do link to stickers here: getmonero.org/press-kit

we have a selfhosted gitlab instance here: repo.getmonero.org, so there is no need for a gitea instance