matrix dot org was offline for several hours. welcome back everyone!

centralized

<plowsof11> "matrix dot org was offline for..." <- I did not even notice, you really should get off matrix.org

"but it just works and is always online"

99% uptime :/

<DanIsnotthemanBr> "99% uptime :/" <- Very bad that a few days of complete darkness a year

<twisted_turtle[m> "monerokon2 poster.png" <- You can get killed in certain parts of Europe for opening this in public transportation.

You almost killed me today for example during my commuting

that's the cringiest shit ever lmfao

Open it next to some 2.2 meter height dude

👁️

Then proceed to explain monero vs btc, monerochan ??? profit

No just dont post this on monero community

If you're not carrying monerochan stickers to sell to random strangers on the bus, you're ngmi

I like to read chats when I drive on a train

But this can get you killed

dude lives in afghanistan

please

Wen #monero-coomerunity

I think there already is monero aet fund chat with porn

Just for you

s/aet/art/

Stnby[m]: "oh this guy looking at these hentais, weirdo" steps off the train

Oh no you certainly almost died

CAN YOU STOP TRYING TO CENSOR MONEROCHAN IN EVERY GOD-DAMNED CHATROOM

no

touch grass

You already got her kicked out of Monerokon, fine

She's a big part of the monero community and this is the monero community room

bro then don't post her without a bra and protect her dignity wtf

By having it be a monerokon poster it's also more than just some art thing, it's literally advertising a monero community event

Monerochan is worst thing about Monero

Siren[m]: she clearly has DD milkers and erect nipples, do her a favor

Cry about it lol

> he's not using one of these

I didn't make the image but it's the result of you guys getting the research lab image removed

Why cant we have Monero family

Not everyone who gets paid in monero is a prostitute

:DDD

cryptogrampy[m]: AMAZING JUST WHAT I NEED TO SCROLL THIS CHAT

"if this is too degen we'll show them real degen" you are responsible for the existence of that image

What's wrong with that image? It's not even hentai

yes it's ecchi

They don't like the nipples

I like the nipples

Make monero a black guy instead

Which i agree, too explicit if it was officiall event imagery

make monerokun with erect nipples instead

Stnby[m]: yes

just use art from wolf for monerokon

:D

How bout we contribute 50 cent each and let indian fiver make us an image?

But it isn't and they already removed the tasteful monerochan images from monerokon so now the imagery has been made more degenerate as "revenge"

worse than wallet2 or wallet-rpc?

where did w0lf go?

cryptogrampy[m]: equally as bad XDDD

"tasteful"

I feel similar when I see both

Stnby[m]: We literally have an ai to do it for free

ahahaha

no

monerobull[m]1: You all ruined the dataset

AI produces things like "MOONY"

XD

nioc: There was nothing wrong with researcher monerochan

there was something wrong

she wasn't in proper lab attire with her bangs

Well no shit it's an image model with no sense of understanding for text

also big breast implants

:DDD

And no cryptographer sits in an actual laboratory either

yeah

monerobull[m]1: that's like your opinion man

monerobull[m]1: thanks for ruining it for me

monerobull[m]1: monerochan in a lab, must be encoding private keys in DNA acids n a microbiology lab

s/n/in/

for the record "researcher monerochan" is not new, the image had been used by monero research lab and localmonero is the past

woke up today thinking it's been a while since drama

Btw, finally will have some time for the monerokon payment plugin development as I graduated today :D

It was literally made for MRL

nioc: There is no drama

damn

nioc we are shitposting, you can go back to sleep

enjoy your sleep sar

Just prudes trying to lay their views onto the rest of the community 😮‍💨

theres drama llama now that you ruined my kink

has nothing to do with prude, more like reality

No monerochan still goes into a real lab

She's living in a meta world

monerobull: I will draw you rare monerochans, just not for monerokon ok>

s/>/?/

living in meta, hmmmm

For stickers?

maybe

Can we get a discount if we design the stickers?

If you can actually draw that would be awesome

Stnby[m]: You get them for free, just shipping. If it's actually good that is

isthmus is a chemist

And if you're at monerokon i can just hand em to you

monerobull[m]1: Siren is the designer I only review xD

<Stnby[m]> "Btw, finally will have some time..." <- congratulations!

<Stnby[m]> "How bout we contribute 50 cent..." <- I've commissioned a fiver designer to work on a monerokon logo for $80. we'll see what they come up with

<ajs_[m]> "I've commissioned a fiver..." <- Where is gnuteardeops :'(

* Where is gnuteardrops :'(

They made the last few designs, right?

Gnuteardrops made the hardfork logo for us as well

can someone make a meme of drake "Paying community members who have already contributed " 🙅 "Spending 80$ on fiver" 😍 or the guy looking behind toward the other girl while walking with his gf

given Rucknium's earlier comment "The lack of C++ programmers is bottlenecking a huge amount of work", a question -- what are the reasons that Monero Core is written in C++? and is this shortage of C++ programmers specific to Monero, to crypto, or is it the case globally?

<ajs_[m]> "I've commissioned a fiver..." <- if that doesn't work out I made another for you guys:

This one might go into print

leggings are too tight

dont look very comfortable

chaser: AFAIK, Monero is written in C++ because it's based on the original C++ Cryptonote codebase. AFAIK, there isn't a compelling reason to switch languages. It would require an enormous amount of work.

has Stnby disabled image previews yet (please be alive?)

Rucknium[m]: Watch kayaba singlehandedly rewrite it it rust

Image previews on what?

Speculation: programmers of all kinds are commanding a high salary now. Supply is low compared to demand. That may change with some of the tech bubble deflating. Easier but slower languages have replace C++ as the tool of choice for many programmers.

Knowledgeable people have already commented that something like that is not feasible.

Not a single dev in a short period of time

Rucknium[m]: well, speed is a major component in how scalable Monero can become, so that makes sense

in settings -> preferences ofrnxmr , matrix users can opt out of being shown images unless you click first

There's the risk of accidental chain splits. Other chains have already had them (BTC, ETH)

Who wants to do that though?

Nothing in here I havent seen in real life

The BTC one was just a halting of the chain for certain nodes since miners did not use the alternative node implementation

So you'd have to be absolutely sure you've got it right, in an environment when Monero's specification isn't even written down anywhere except for the source code itself.

generally a good idea (we've had people 'attack' with images in the past) not talking about these monerochan images

I am not a real programmer. Ask a programmer's opinion on it.

Rucknium[m]: AFAIR, that wasn't because Bitcoin had a major alternative node implementation, but due to a bug in a new client version

perfect-daemon , you're opinion please

The real perfect-daemon, right?

chaser: Right. There is no major alternative node implementation of BTC, probably because people are afraid of chainsplits, so they don't use the alt implementations

Rucknium[m]: Ethereum did have those issues early on, now multi-client is rather a source of resilience, although I'll admit it noticeably slows down development

Didn't ETH have splits in August 2021?

Rucknium[m]: it did, but it was a similar situation to the old Bitcoin split, two subsequent releases of the same client (geth) had an incompatibility bug (twitter.com/go_ethereum/status/1431264560019820547). it wasn't due to having 5 major full node implementations, all in different languages

> <@rucknium:monero.social> Didn't ETH have splits in August 2021?

* it did, but it was a similar situation to the old Bitcoin split, two subsequent releases of the same client (geth) were incompatible (twitter.com/go\_ethereum/status/1431264560019820547). it wasn't due to having 5 major full node implementations, all in different languages

Personally, I like the idea of multiple implementations in abstract -- in theory. In practice, it looks hard for Monero at this point in time. But my commentary isn't worth nearly as much as people who know the programming.

chaser: I see.

<plowsof11> "has Stnby disabled image..." <- Alive but in a hospital

To properly translate the Monero code, you would have to have people who know both C++ and the alternative language very well. In the short term, you still have the problem of the lack of C++ developers.

Stnby[m]: But has he disabled image previews

All good I have limited vision since now

Rucknium[m]: yeah, I'm not saying Monero should have multiple node implementations (although I see it as desirable on the long-term), I was just curious about the reasons for C++. but I'll say this: even if there's only one implementation, having a formal spec would be the right thing. it makes reasoning about the security of the protocol much easier.

C++ is one of the fastest compiled language.

Rust is good... Now, but was it when Monero was new?

Other fast compiled language is C.

At the time Monero was released, Rust was just some obscure "forever in beta" programming language

^ Real programmer can now comment

Rust/C/C++ are equally "fast" today, in terms of compiler optimizations

sech1: Exact, there the fastest option you can get, I think.

Except if you can do manual assembler optimizations

Monero uses quite a bit of assembly code

in crypto libraries and in RandomX

So yeah, I see why the used c++

They chosen the best programming language available to them for the job back when when initially began to work on Monero.

Performance is useful, especially if you want the thing to scale.

In 10 years something even better than Rust will appear as a first alpha on the scene, and in 20 years people will say

"Why on Earth is software X implemented in that old language there, Rust? Wasn't xyz (the new better thing) ready when they wrote X?"

And of course "I want to rewrite X in xyz. The only sane way to move forward. Anybody with me?"

rbrunner: C was not the first, but one of the first languages and it is still around as a real contender, not just as legacy

It depends, I would say. Starting something brand new today, and write it in C? Well, if it's special in some way, may work. Probably mostly not, however - for a *new* software.

But Monero is in C++, it exists, and as a codebase it's bigger than it looks at first sight, and even at second sight

Regarding the question of RavFX[m] where Rust was around 2012 when CryptoNote was implemented:

You may check Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(program…nguage)#Origins_(2006%E2%80%932012)

And consider that it's not only about the language itself, it's also about available libraries for different stuff, as you don't want to write everything yourself from scratch

And if that brand new language really was available: How would you know you *can* bet the house on it because it *will* succeed?

Just look at the sentence in that article:

In January 2014, the editor-in-chief of Dr. Dobb's Journal, Andrew Binstock, commented on Rust's chances of becoming a competitor to C++ in addition to the languages D, Go, and Nim

Two languages from that list made it (Rust and Go), two more or less didn't (D and Nim).

Nobody around today to call me a boomer? :)

Unfortunately, one of them is in the hospital. (This is a joke.)

Im here though.. BOOMER

Ok, I needed that as sort of a confirmation.

Boomer

Ah, I think I remember you.

Just get rid of the miner in wallet3.cpp 😄

Get rid of cpp in wallet3 too

Anything else, while we are at it? :)

I will let ChatGPT migrate it to Rust and C.

<rbrunner> "I will let ChatGPT migrate it to..." <- Yesss

Let the GitHub copilot backend handle it

And violate GPL

<rbrunner> "I will let ChatGPT migrate it to..." <- "Go" would work just fine as well

We can deal with the Go ourselves once you exit the hospital

AIs can't violate something, don't you know. Just ask GitHub with Copilot

GPL is only relevant for humans

When AIs violate licenses, their companies take responsibility and they get sued

just heard about c++ on a podcast: cppstories.com/2022/cpp-status-2022

people dont seem to be switching to rust only because its that new new

The only reason why I'm not using it for a project is that it's not portable enough yet, poor ARM support, no RISC-V. So going with Go instead.