whilst watching "next friday"

meeting in 2~ hours monero-project/meta #864

<r4v3r23[m]> "what's next up feature-wise?" <- For Feather I currently have my sight on: UR for offline tx signing, intergrating jberman's background sync (+ memory hardening), using dice as external entropy for seed generation, experiment with Flatpak extensions as an initial plugin system to ship "heavier" features like daemon integration, p2pool, maybe atomic swaps. More options for high/esoteric threat models. Plus lots of

misc. enhancements / UX improvements that I've collected from feedback. Not really a feature but also want to leverage containerization and Qt Test for automated regression testing (like ensuring no network requests are made before user grants permission / portable mode only writes in portable directory, etc).

<tobtoht[m]> "For Feather I currently have..." <- great, looks like background sync has finally got some eyes on it for a review

meeting time monero-project/meta #864

Greetings

Hi

matrix is playing up for me but the IRC bridge is working thankfully

👋

Hello

lets share some community highlights while people come in 3. Community highlights

the new / final bulletproofs++ paper is here libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20230720#c268352. The first auditors, CypherStack, will provide an update some time in August (because the paper is now different / complete, i can only assume the scope of the audit may require changes / cost adjustments. The MRL team can discuss this

after CS provide feedback of the final paper).

Hello

libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20230710#c267159 "Buy and sell information on the owner of any blockchain wallet address—anonymously, via smart contract." Lovera has tested it out for us. No support for Monero (transparent blockchains only)

I wonder if you could poison the system by selling fake info 🤔

Hi

after reaching out to several auditors/cryptography researchers for adding security proofs to the Seraphis paper(s), the initial feedback has been 'can we arrange a call' whereas for the bp++ audit, which the MRL was able to provide feedback on an actual scope of work, a quote for time / cost was easily obtaininable for comparison, i've recommended

the same to be done for the Seraphis papers to remove alot of friction from the process. jberman and koe will collaborate in creating a more detailed scope

blankpage[m]: a pretty graph goes a long way

Hello, sorry late.

hello

just sharing some highlights of the past 2 weeks if anyone wants to share something

To confirm, there are some funds raised and allocated for bp++++++ audit (but the eventual cost is unknown) whereas the audits for seraphis are essentially unknown and unfunded at this point?

[Revuo Monero](revuo-xmr.com) - [The Monero Standard](localmonero.co/the-monero-standard) have been 2 active newsletters during this period and the author of revuo, rottenwheel has joined this channel

Does anyone know when escapethe3RA will be back to write the Monero observer?

blankpage yes - the bp++ audit funds where for an earlier version of the paper

s/observer/Observer/

currently trying to obtain quotes for seraphis work

blankpage: BP++ now has security proofs. Those security proofs need to be checked to make sure there is no flaw in them. Seraphis is lacking security proofs. Those need to be written. Then those proofs need to be checked.

no updates from escape3RA about return date

The original BP++ paper had a vulnerability in it, too. (According to ACK-J)

Is there a post about that somewhere Rucknium? The vulnerability

in the papers changelog "Fixed soundness vulnerability in range proofs that required the introduction of new challenge

variable δ to the arithmetic circuit protocol."

i do not know what this means

blankpage: libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20230720#c268403

shall we move on to the CCS proposals?

Looks like

first impressions of the new bp++ paper from cypherstack coming in august*

4. [CCS updates](ccs.getmonero.org)

a. [recanman bitejo rewrite and expansion proposal](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/395)

I thought about making a separate CCS for the jobs, but I am confident that I can finish it in one CCS.

I've already been working on it for fun (I am going to make it, but much slower if it doesn't get funded), and things have been going well.

proposal has not changed since 3 weeks. it will stay on the ideas page and rot away as it stands right now imo

I don't feel that any changes are necessary.

I will restate my opinion that I am not against such proposals but I would not donate because it requires network effects etc. to be successful rather than being a technical problem

Greetings #late

If you get something successful running, then maybe apply to CCS for maintenance/expansion

Since it would be a hobby project, it would take a year at minimum.

Most successful monero market website is a janky ugly mess but people will go wherever the people are

I'm planning to promote it with LocalMonero

has localmonero promoted bitejo?

No, they have not

I don't think the original creator of Bitejo ever contacted them.

I had suggested removing the jobs portion of the ccs (- name: Month 4 (Begin jobs service backend) (80 hours) funds: 15 XMR done: status: unfinished - name: Month 5 (Finish jobs service backend) (80 hours) funds: 10 XMR ) -25xmr

Could you remind me of the reasoning for that?

brings it to 30 xmr for work, 15 for maintenance and hosting etc

New ccs later for the jobs part

the proposal does not require changes according to recanman, which has received many suggestions during that time. if people would like more time to make a decision on merge/close (or willing to vote now) please say/do so

30xmr for current stuff

25 for jobs

15 for maintenance

cut the jobs stuff for now

I am about to make the changes

i would vote close on its current form, but do not want to deter recanman from coming back with something more appealing

discuss it again next meeting and move on?

ofrnxmr[m]: > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> 30xmr for current stuff... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…a574163f572a558b826bf5df01a59e7632a>)

Total 45 XMR for four months of work

Close in current form, but since making changes, wait 2 weeks and revisit i think

recanman: thanks. we'llsee before the next meeting if anyone has anything else to suggest.

lets revisit next time and discuss more in the interim

By next meeting, I won't be able to commit the four months.

would anyone like to revisit any of the previous proposals that where voted for being closed

Thats ok

b. [Glitter Finance Cross-Chain Privacy Infrastructure with Monero](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/396) Close

c. [Serving Defcon 31 (2023)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/397) Close

d. [XMR Business Wallet Development](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/398) Close

I say close them all

recanman[m]: You can begin work anytime and bill later.

should probably change your milestones description from "month1, 2 etc" to "as work is completed".

Nah close the three proposals

B. Close

C. Close

D. Close

Unless glittrr wants to sponsor us

thanks to everyone who is leaving feedback here and also on the gitlab

* sponsor us /s

moving on then..

e. [Continued Feather Wallet development (3 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/400)

tobtoht listed some items on the todo list today libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20230722#c268628

I don't use Feather Wallet personally, but I've seen it and it is pretty great

+merge

Merge feather always 🪶

the background sync with view keys only pull request from jberman is also up for review. an update was provided here (with links to the associated bounty) monero-project/monero #8619#issuecomment-1632951461 - its nice to see feather wants to integrate it asap

I like that feather wants to

But unless the fixes make it back upstream in less than a year 😅 TOBBY! Haha

(referring to proxy leak and dns leak, polyseed etc)

(Comment from a lurker: I am reviewing that background sync PR right now.)

That DNS leak happened to be an accidental fix, I wasn't aware of it.

rbrunner: I will review it too (not accepting the bounty)

tobtoht has been handling tech support / bug reports / sharing updates in #feather:monero.social

rbrunner: Could you explain background sync simply? What makes it different from the way sync happens now?

View keys

"Background" in this case means "While you don't have the wallet open in the app".

It's kept open in the background, in a pretty secure way, and collects info about incomming transactions.

also on IRC OFTC network #feather

If you "open" the wallet again in the app, it will be synced "officially" withing seconds.

So wallet can keep syncing in background without having spend keys in memory (?)

am i remembering wrong?

afaiu but injb (im not jberman) - the wallet will re-scan all the inputs received using the spend key to double check if they are realchange

that where found during background view key scanning

Yes, that's the "magic" that this PR implements - the spend secret key is NOT around

Does this use the change "heuristic" to recognize spent txs?

+merge for tobtoht. thanks for the #feather room nioc (i keep joining the empty #monero-feather lol

No, it just collects all rings where any of your outputs occur. Later, with the spend secret available again, it sorts things out

since the view key cannot directly recognize spent funds.

+1 Merge btw

+1 merge on Feather continued development

injb and i think no heuristics are needed because the spend key verifies if theyre change / real

after the fact

pls confirm

0xffc: joining us?

Yes, no heuristics are involved

(that was a ping)

Does it assume that the user doesn't have a second wallet that is spending funds?

No, that's no problem: If you collect *all* rings where any of your outputs occur, you catch such spendings

Does it check every tx that uses a given output to see if it's....

I see. Check all rings that use the output. Makes sense

You check those rings with the spend key when your load it. Since there are only a few of those txs, it's a quick check. Right?

Exactly.

<plowsof11> "[Revuo Monero](revuo-xmr..." <- Welcome? 😅

m2049r/xmrwallet #785#issuecomment-1079569991 Rucknium:

Very nice :)

Some early discussion is here

I’m late but my vote merges for feather 🚀

hello!

B, C and D for me Close

<plowsof11> " b. [Glitter Finance Cross-..." <- > <@plowsof:matrix.org> b. [Glitter Finance Cross-Chain Privacy Infrastructure with Monero](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/396) Close

> c. [Serving Defcon 31 (2023)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/397) Close

> d. [XMR Business Wallet Development](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/398) Close

Here

positive / merge sentiment for feather 🪶

moving on...

Thanks all ♥️

f. [j-berman full-time 3 months (part 5)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/401)

+1 berman

I've raised doubts about whether it's a good idea to code a protocol that has no security proofs yet: libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20230705#c263993

If the community wants to go ahead with it, that's fine.

+1

It could be wasted effort

We need Dev work seraphis and all this stuff so +1 merge berman

+merge

perhaps adding in hours to collab with koe to create a detailed spec for auditors / cryptographers to obtain quotes from people easier could be added (i dont know how long this would take)

Rucknium: do you suggest we try to get proofs done asap?

ofrnxmr: Yes

isn't it a little early to work on including FCMP in the wallet lib?

hbs: IMHO, yes

It needs to be tested thouroughly, and I am not sure building tests around it would be much faster than plugging it into the library for testing ...

We don't know how we would get the security proofs for Curve Trees done. AFAIK, kayabaNerve is knocking on some doors to see who could work on it

ideally these things can be discussed in MRL/no wallet left behind meetings also

rbrunner: What's "it"?

The FCMP code

Im still +1 merge berman. Id rather not derail any momentum theyve created. Even if work doesnt pan out, maybe we'll find out before seraphis is even ready :P

so jberman merge / get feedback from MRL/no wallet left behind

Merge jberman

Sounds good to me

Also, merge jberman

i think merge before next meeting

If no negative feedback from mrl/NWLB/dev

AOB

Im assume kayabanerve: would say merge

msvb-lab shared in events that there will be a meeting in 1 hour

Anything else on the agenda?

no

monerokon is doing a lot of restructuring

#monero-translations:monero.social recently pushed a bunch of french translations to -site (yes, we still have passionate volunteers creating/reviewing translations 🙏)

So if involved with monerokon, or want tl be, pay attention to Monero Events because planning is already underway

"Finance Committee" to address concerns over reimbursement issue iirc , and other things.. creating a none profit to not have to rely on Digital Renegades for things / become independant

seems like we've came to an end, thank you all for joining and enjoy the rest of your weekend 👍️

Good meeting and dankon everyone.

ah. One last note

Libera rooms will work differrnt with matrix soon. Youll need to join the matrix rooms

For example... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…35610d1939252b53ae89295588ee2921bb5>)

If you are joining from matrix and are in Libera.Chat #p2pool-log etc. I would recommend to move onto these (as they are plumbed and working already) before the cutoff date of portalled room libera.chat/news/matrix-deportalling

Thanks for mentioning, was going to do the same here but was waiting for meeting to be over :)

<ofrnxmr[m]> "But unless the fixes make it..." <- Yeah, I recently became aware that Monerujo is using a wallet_api extension for their pocketchange feature that I wrote for Feather eons ago and realized I could have saved them some time had that been available in core, so I think you're right to point this out and I will give upstreaming stuff higher priority going forward.

<ofrnxmr[m]> "0xffc: joining us?" <- Sorry, was sleep. Didn’t know it, otherwise would’ve woken up. Will ask you about details in pv

the 'built on Monero' game townforge has an upcoming version (including making blocks less blocky) demo video here (shared by Sysky in #townforge:libera.chat) yewtu.be/watch?v=zmRa-DV5R0I

<imleyne> Hey there, I'm new to the cryptospace and wanted to buy some Monero/BTC while avoiding KYC. I'll be visiting SFO/SJC area today if anyone is available and open to selling me some coins in person.

Better off using localmonero.co rather than posting randomly in a matrix room

<imleyne> Thanks for the tip! Sorry, I must have mistaken the intent of this room!

<plowsof> "the 'built on Monero' game..." <- Never actually saw Townforge

I don't play video games, but this is tempting