<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> Feel free to post your offers on haveno DEX, man Haveno blog.nihilism.network/servers/haveno-client-f2f/index.html (quick setup tutorial)

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> It supports the same payment options as there was on localmonero

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> Theres this chatroom to help u get going too Haveno

decentralisation drama is pretty next level. Maybe it's me getting old but i can't keep up

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> It supports a lot of the same payment options, but not the exact same ones. For example, there is no PayPal, which was a very popular one. There is no cash app, which was a very popular one. And there is no chime. Though Chaim wasn't particularly popular, it was there.

<p​rivacyx:matrix.org> I believe they were left out due higher risk of chargebacks also this would bring unneccassary attention to Haveno and give a negative perception of Haveno and Monero. You how goes there always one fool who ruins it for everyone

<p​rivacyx:matrix.org> I believe they were left out due higher risk of chargebacks also this would bring unneccassary attention to Haveno and give a negative perception of Haveno and Monero. You know how it goes there always one fool who ruins it for everyone

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I know the chargeback risks and I think the seller should be allowed to make the decision as to whether they wish to take those risks or not. As I said, those were extremely popular payment methods and without them we will limit our potential user base.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I do not believe we should purposely limit our potential user base, even though the risk is higher. These sellers should obviously be informed that the risk is higher, but they should be allowed to make the final of the call on taking that risk

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That and I firmly believe that if you start trying to limit people's payment options, they will abuse something like cash by mail and just put their PayPal email or whatever in the more information field. I mean hell in cash by mail if you put two space characters in the name of envelope field and two space characters in the address field and fill out your PayPal username in the m<clipped

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> ore information field you can already do it but it's an abusive way to do it

<p​rivacyx:matrix.org> Would that increase workload or complexity of resolving for arbs?

<p​rivacyx:matrix.org> I agree with that point onus on the seller

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Possibly, though they could just wash their hands of it and say that any dispute arising from a transaction that's high risk of charge back like that will not be looked at.

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> also, any payment method should have a solid trade protocol, to make arbitration easier

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its also just straight up bad PR to have "i got scammed on haveno" posts not even 2 weeks after launch

<p​rivacyx:matrix.org> Yes that i agree with we do not need that shit we already cop enough as it is

<a​js_:matrix.org> Is monerotopia on matrix?

<k​arano:poddery.com> yes

<a​js_:matrix.org> What is the channel

<k​arano:poddery.com> #monerotopia:monero.social

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> hi is this the main chat location for monero? I don't use matrix/element often, I just found `#monero-community:monero.social` on the monero website when I was looking for a discord server

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Yes, mostly.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> and is it just this one room or is there a larger server with multiple channels that I can join?

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> there are a bunch more, not sure how to share the space, hope this works matrix.to/#/#monerospace:monero.social

<n​yiko:matrix.org> Hi am new..

<n​yiko:matrix.org> Glad to be part of the community

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> that seemed to work thank you :-)

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Welcome. We like new people

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> We like old people too, but we really like new people.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> other question is what do people recommend for securely buying/staking (and voting if monero is a DAO ?) monero as someone located in the US? Ideally a phone app.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> I mainly hold crypto assets in the polkadot ecosystem, but it looks like monero is not connected. And I can't buy monero on coinbase (no surprise). If I could have a secure wallet to hold my monero assets, and swap some other crypto (which I would buy through coinbase) to buy into the monero ecosystem, that would be ideal.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Moerujo and CakeWallet are the typical mobile wallet recommendations far as I know

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Charles (he/him): Monero cannot be staked. It is a proof-of-work blockchain. There is no voting and no DAO.

<n​yiko:matrix.org> Lol. Thanks like the monero soo decided to participate in the community but am a Jnr Java programmer...

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> wait how are monero gas fee's low if it is PoW? i thought everyone moved away from PoW because it was computationally expensive which caused excessive gas fees

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Hey, if you're a Java programmer, we could probably use your help.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> github.com/haveno-dex/haveno

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> As for how our fees are so low, that would be due to dynamic block size.

<c​t:xmr.mx> Transaction fees are low because our "tail emission" pays for the network security, transaction fees exist only to prevent spam.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That too

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Charles (he/him): The consensus mechanism (PoW/PoS/etc.) does not directly affect transaction fees. You can learn more about blockchains.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> does "tail emission" just refer to the concept of monero having no max supply, as oppose to bitcoins halving mechanism

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> if those emissions are whats used to pay miners, what do transaction fees go toward?

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> thank y'all for answering my questions btw

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> The transaction fees go towards paying miners as well.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> The point of the tail emission is to maintain security on the network because there's always a reason and incentive for miners to mine the chain.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> I always assumed PoS was strictly better than PoW since that's what basically every other chain uses these days,, never really took the time to consider the pro's and cons 🤔

<c​t:xmr.mx> There is an implicit max supply. With each block 0.6xmr are mined. Currently this equals about 0.8% inflation. As the supply grows, the fixed 0.6xmr will be an ever lower share, thus the effective inflation will *decrease* over time.

<c​t:xmr.mx> You also need to account the amount of monero that gets lost when people send it to a wrong address or loose their keys. Assume this is about 0.5% of the total supply per year. At some point the mined and the lost xmr will cancel out, and this is the effective max supply.

<c​t:xmr.mx> In a nutshell: yes there is some inflation, but its very different form the fiat inflation that grows exponentially

<c​t:xmr.mx> With PoS you can not participate permission less. If current token owners won't sell to you, you are out of luck. With our PoW RandomX you don't need to ask anyone for permission, you can just use the CPU in your computer to mine.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> yeah it seems like the main drawback of PoS is that it increases the barrier of entry to run a validator

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> I mean the consensus mechanism determines how much compute it costs to uphold the network, which in turn I would think translates to real dollar cost to uphold the network via transaction/gas fees

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> but ig indirect

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> either way i do definitely need to learn more about blockchains lol

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> The difference between gas fees and transaction fees is quite relevant

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Charles (he/him): Start by reading the bitcoin white paper. It explains the principles well.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> And other proof of stake paradigms than the one ETH uses as well

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> ETH's is pretty complex. Firo is more straightforward

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> But as others have said, xmr is pow

<c​t:xmr.mx> I always recommend 3blue1browns video as an introduction to blockchain tech

<c​t:xmr.mx> good entertainment too

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> I think I'm at the point w/ a lot of blockchain stuff that yt videos don't move the needle much tbh, and I really just need to take the time to read the papers like Rucknium is suggesting / read the code

<c​t:xmr.mx> that guy usually does math videos, not crypto stuff

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> I work in AI so been burried in ai papers,,, struggling to find time for genuine blockchain learning 😅 but i'll get there

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> I mean i'll check out the video i love 3b1b, i more mean that I need to dig into the details at this point than more high level stuff. I'm someone who needs to understand the deep deep fundamentals otherwise my overall understanding stays foggy haha

<c​t:xmr.mx> understood, you didn't seem like the typical new user to be honest :D

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> thank you 😆 I'm def tech savy— just new to crypto specifically haha, but i know my way around a server

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Well, we appreciate you being here. If you need help getting your assets from the Polkadot chain over to Monero, if you decide to, you could always buy Litecoin and then swap it.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Either on Haveno (DEX) or Trocador (CEX) aggregator.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Either on Haveno (DEX) or Trocador.app (CEX) aggregator.

<c​harleshetterich:matrix.org> ty for the solution! will prob do it that way

<s​needlewoods:monero.social> Charles (he/him): this is a great source of information if you like reading technical stuff web.getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf