<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> he's a traitor

<d​arkhappyman:monero.social> Hello everybody, I am a bit programmer I want to help where can I start

so a new version of Monerujo released with SideKick reddit.com/r/Monerujo/comments/1fo1…w_sidekick_is_officially_out_in_the

some of our community members have already left some nice reviews

" my PR for Monerujo has been waiting for 5 months and they released a new version without looking any of the open PRs. Fucking hilarious." - detherminal

5/5! another review from twiddle "2 open PRs 8 months old" A*

actual link here: sidekick.monerujo.app

+1 lol, monerujo is the worst maintained wallet. Been like this for ~2hrs

Yrs*

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> sidekick demo at monerokon was cool

via bluetooth OR a standardised UR / QR thingy. its 2024 now

step one for your offline signing device: turn on bluetooth

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> bluetooth works way easier than the qr codes

several years ago that was a valid concern

but offline signers via QR exist now

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> id argue sidekick is great for a wallet you use often

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> QR signing is annoying af

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> id use sidekick more like a "yubikey for your wallet"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> instead of your hodl wallet

for a wallet you use often, id want auto send without conf for amounts less than a certain fiat equiv. e.g. 50 eur via NFC, not too concerned with security there

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Encrypted BLE?

maybe you just need a wallet to support yubikey if you want htat

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> plow thats not how it works

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> either the seed is in a place where it can be easily compromised or not, a yubikey wont do anything

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the sidekick works very smoothly, not like the qr codes where you have to go back and forth multiple times

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> so it really is a good way to massively enhance wallet security even if it is not really following the definition of airgap

a security feature added to a badly maintained wallet mind

ill stick with standardised file transferals that have more chance of future support (already in feather and anonero and co)

bluetooth is available on some off the shelf HWW so it clearly has a usecase and is convenient. I'd just advise people to put their funds into a more actively maintained wallet above all

<d​etherminal:monero.social> saketo.io :)

feather, anonero, xmruw, and previewed on cake the other day

none of which use bluetooth

also xmrsigner

someone zoomed in on cakes tweet showing the phone wasnt offline :P

😆

so not previewed yet!

He worded carefully, said "airgapped" instead of "offline" 💅

s/fully/partially

nice that its coming though

<3​21bob321:monero.social> BLE wallet in a farady cage

Would be nice if monerujo did basic maintenance tho

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Setup dependabot

Sidekick is nice and all but still have issues and prs open for yrs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> plow, sidekick is actually using the ledger bluetooth signing library if i remember right

hopefully there are no bugs in ledgers implementation. they have been known to leak spend keys without interaction from the user after plugging in the usb cable app.opencve.io/cve/?&vendor=ledger&product=monero

monerobull does monerujo support connecting to ledger devices via bluetooth?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> idk

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it should since sidekick is basically the same thing

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I'll ping m2049r: so he can address any doubts about it

<p​reland:monero.social> Bluetooth cold wallet is wild

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> QR codes are super quick, especially if you actually use your cold storage wallet with synced key images.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> still more back and forth

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Nero/Feather combo is excellent, the longest thing sometimes is waiting for building the tx over Tor.

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Its 2 simple scans, probably same time as having to setup BT connection to both phones.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> hm, maybe

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Would be interesting to see a video comparison of the full process using both methods.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ive seen both and sidekick was very close to just sending a tx without the key being separated from the wallet

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Except for the BT pairing and setup.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> dont get me wrong, qr code is awesome and actually airgapped

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> I haven't check out Sidekick as I don't have an extra offline Android, I use Feather for cold storage.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> my rational is that you connect that and then can make transactions all day with the thing just laying on your desk

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> And tobtoht just said they won't add Sidekick support to Feather so I'll never really get to test.

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Sounds like use case for a hot wallet to me.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> well yeah

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> You'd keep the BT connection open all day just sitting there?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> sidekick perfectly fits in the middle of hotwallet and airgapped in terms of security/usability

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Sure, I just didn't know such a middle ground existed.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it drastically improves security vs a regular hotwallet but is not as secure as real airgapped

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Options are great thought, I'll be interested to see what other wallets add support.

<j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Options are great though, I'll be interested to see what other wallets add support.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> also, it is a joy to look at lmao

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> go little computer, build my transaction :)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Test?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> plowsof: CCS question for you or anyone qualified to answer.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Can the CCS host a contest? Well-defined challenge criteria with prize money?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It's not a Q on the CCS rules, it's a Q on the willingness of core, I just honestly don't know who to ping to move this discussion forward.

you can raise funds through a CCS and put the proceeds in a bounty

seems like the most straightforward way to do it

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> geonic: Who admins the bounty?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I can't legally do this unless we add a lot of paperwork to it. I also am not willing to be so liable.

sgp I think. plowsof can answer that

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> *I may be able to legally do it, but I'd add my legal costs to the CCS and would need a fallback if no, it's not feasible.

I don’t see how/where you’d become liable?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> CCS raising for a bounty not by core is fine with me though.

you don’t even need to touch the money. have the ccs be paid out to the bounty deposit address

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> If I do a CCS, collect the money, and admin a bounty myself.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> ... K, I see the issue.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm asking how would the inevitable bounty be run. You're saying THE bounty, a specific bounty in a specific place.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Would you please specify what bounty platform you're proposing?

I was referring to this

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Thank you

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> That works IMO. Some question on if its optimal but it works. The CCS would need to be willing to 0-milestone payout or payout upon contest completion (which means the CCS should just pay the winner directly?).

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> SGP is not an admin, present nor past

at one point seth was an admin on the bounties site, to clear that up

Ccs doesnt handle bounties wallet, separate platforms

Bounty lets someone put it in progress and pays upon conpletion

the bounty would fall out of scope if it has a specific funding target hmm but there are no ccs rules as we've established time and time again. anything is possible kayabanerve

bounty can have a funding minimum target

if people agree/disagree that kayabanerve can raise funds for a specific task that he will see is completed correctly and decide who the winner is then so be it

doesnt stop someone from starting the work for less $

github.com/t-900-a/fider-monero-bot…ster/policy/scope.md#bounty-scope-1

a minimum or maximum would fall under a "funding threshold" , i mean a bounty can be scoped out with 'person X decides who the winner is' which is acceptable as the bounty is presumably falls under kayaba's expertise area?

shared and hopefully obtains a substantial amount of funding to attract the right person to complete it

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Is the vibe it'd be better to CCS it entirely, or 0-milestone a CCS to the bounties platform plowsof

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Because it sounds like CCS can do it all

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> And it sounds like the bounties platform introduces its own paperwork for unclear benefit

lets see what the contest is for, could clear things up

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> github.com/WinampDesktop/winamp

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> is it to add winamp into wowlet?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> plowsof: it'd be for more performant implementations of some of the mathematics underlying the FCMP++ code if done. Implementations would be subject to a rule set, and if they passed, numerically evaluated for performance. I haven't done a full specification. There is a reference implementation present (my own work). My own CCS notes my implementation of Helios/Selene are not expe<clipped message>

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> cted to be production-grade performant (though they ended up acceptable in prod) so it isn't outsourcing my work in that regard.

research related bounties are banned btw so looks like ccs is your only option :(((

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It is for numerically-evaluated actually-implemented libraries

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Literally a drag race of the submissions

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Research related bounties are banned due to scams, no?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think we can make exceptions whenever we feel like it

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I understand if:

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> $ to the first lib earning 500 points is dev

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> $ to the best lib is research

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> though

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There's not an explicit evaluation target given.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bounties is a competition based

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs gemerally has someone to do the work before its opened

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Unless its just raising funds to allocate for future essential work, in which case we also have generalfund

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like the ccs for bp++ peer review

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/bulletproofs-pp-peer

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/bulletproofs-pp-peer-review.html

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It sounds like I need to draft a spec, I need to decide if it's a good idea, the academia on divisors needs to be concrete so this isn't wasted effort, and then I need to open a CCS. The CCS will be accepted, or I need to edit it so that it immediately funds a bounty on bounties.monero.social (with permission from whoever is the admin of that). Then that will be accepted or it won<clipped message>

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 't but that is how it is.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> iirc, this did not select cypherstack when it was first moved to funding

depends on the scope really, if the task can be completed in only one way then it would be fine. research bounties where banned after someone submitted useless garbage that just so happened to meet the loose requirements

someone overseeing that would refuse payout and seek someone to do it 'correctly'

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> pov: me requesting 5 xmr to make preliminary research on rewriting monerod in rust. (I was really going to put works on it but yeah the description is vague.)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You cant"fund" a bounty, because bounties have to upper limit

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No* upper

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> id go like this

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1. Open bounty with properly defined scope THEN

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2. Open ccs to raise funds to donate to the bounty

requiring 2 people to send funds rather than 1, nightmare scenario

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2 seems redundant, as users can just donate directly to the bounty

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And the bounty and ccs scope would have to be identical

would fall under "Requesting additional funding for an existing CCS that has not been completed"

im sure people can make an exception for FCMP++ , and the general fund would contribute as its project critical / arriving in the near future

oh someone on reddit reporting a vague haveno error, and a bsx 'failed install gpg' error on windows reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1fohd53/i_love_monero_but

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I have no interest in organizing such a bounty without a proper prize pool and would only open the bounty with a guaranteed floor, even if technically people can throw in more.

haveno issue required an update, not sure about the bsx issue

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> plowsof: I prior stated the tasks discussed are out-of-scope to my CCS. Application of that rule would prevent anyone from doing anything re: FCMP++ via the CCS.

the additional funding for existing ccs is a 'bounty' site rule, not ccs, sorry for confusion

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Ah, sorry.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I wouldn't care/request additional 'bounty' contributions FWIW. There just has to be some org administrating payout of the contest, if done. If that's the CCS, great, direct and simple. If they'll only let me fund raise for a contest administered elsewhere, I just need a viable third-party (the already stated candidate being the bounty site).

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> @plowsof bsx user hasnt come to any support channels 🤷‍♂️

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Windows install is recommended to use WSL

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ill get CG to respond, since my reddit is long since banned

the term "Choco" is not recognised 🍫

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yeah, theyre using the Windows GUI installer

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> they need to use bash or docker install within WSL

ok thanks, just sharing here as i noticed it. not the best way to report problems clearly

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The windows bugs are due to it building from source using windows, which doesn't always play nice. The installers are all being redone, but they should use WSL with docker or bash installer

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> thank you ser. I love when pple complain on twitter but dont open issues on repo, join the tg, simplex, matrix etc channels

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I mean, reddit*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Twitter is fine. They dont block me for using tor

kayabanerve we'll figure it out, get the scope out there for people to see

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Isn't this a good job for the Core general fund? If no one submits a better implementation, then funds don't move anywhere. I assume that there is some doubt that a better implementation can be written and/or that the "right" coders would see and be interested in the bounty.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Just like the HackerOne bounties.

Yes, i said we have generalfund for this too

(i'm agreeing, not making matter of fact statements)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Noob question: Can FCMP++ use something like BLAS? I guess auditing a BLAS implementation for cryptographic soundness is not feasible. But...what if?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm fine having the contest yield unused funds to the general fund. I don't want to expect such a burden from core (not doing a CCS yet using the GF)

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> BLAS, Rucknium: ?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I am going to keep the acronym's meaning a secret so I can submit it for the bounty :P

<r​ucknium:monero.social> kayabanerve: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Linear_Algebra_Subprograms

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> > BLAS implementations will take advantage of special floating point hardware such as vector registers or SIMD instructions.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> So the contest, if I successfully organized one, would be for platform-independent single-threaded performance. Platform independence means SIMD extensions presumably won't be available.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> (The minimal reference platform would have to have SIMD and the SIMD code would need to be portable)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Unused funds from ccs should go back to ccs and not the hodl fund.

Right