pauliouk: "Im still shareless :(" what's your he?

s/he/hr

> Im still shareless :(

We will need multiple side chain levels so lower hash miners can pool their hash to find shares...

Oh wow sech1. Monero talk episode about p2pool? Nice.

like if you set diff < 100,000 then you go to level 2 chain and mine to get a level 1 chain share

would that really make any difference? keep your shares from falling out of the pplns window?

I think it would attract more miners as they would see more regular payouts

now a 5kh/s miners can go days with nothing, if p2pool goes over 200mh/s small miners will not even bother

that would still be the case. if the pool has lower hashrate, it won't be finding blocks often enough to pay out

well the l2 chain would be pooling and will find l1 shares more often which would result in l2 miners being paid more often, I think..

I'm pretty sure if you do the math it will turn out identical either way

the upper limit on payout frequency also depends on the payout threshold, and if you lower it too much the coinbase txns will get too large

of course the coinbase txns can never pay out to more addresses than the pplns window size

oh that is true :(

Kind of a few interesting errors here: paste.Debian.net/1211326

p2pool is now listed on miningpoolstats.stream/monero

the monero god blessed me so hard irccloud.com/pastebin/g6gMQyHO

wait nvm actually

the shares were from the syncing againnn

Can I just check that I am updating correctly my P2Pool? Git Pull, cd build, cmake .. and then make and re-run? I just did this but don't see the (empty) share progress

I think the share position display is only there if you have at least 1 found share

didn't know there was a matrix chat so gonna get out of irc

mandelbug: remember to update submodules too

and yes the displays don’t show if you haven’t found a share or uncle yet

sech1: are you looking for IPv6 seed nodes too?

So I'm a small miner ~7kh I see shares appear when I first start p2pool then nothing is seems and no payouts - Is that to be expected?

yes, those shares are just from catching up on sidechain URoRRuRRR[m]

and they have lower diff

So I guess I just need to wait and see what happens

7kh might take a while indeed

then your share counts for around 6h, PPLNS window (2160 side chain blocks)

any block found during that time gives you a payout

61MH/s at this moment, heh

I had one payout early on but I've been messing about with my set up so I guess I got lucky

Your shares = 5 blocks (+0 uncles, 0 orphans)

Your shares position = [1..1......1...1..........1....]

Block reward share = 0.231% (0.002009034066 XMR)

got bad luck during the night and ended up with just 1 share over a window :<

yeah, over time it all averages out URoRRuRRR[m]

at least it is kind of easier for small miners to get an actual payout here, given lower threshold

as usually on pools you would need to match higher accumulated amounts over long time, and trust they don't run with it / attack happens and it was not competently stored

moved from MO to p2pool as soon as I saw it was testing on mainnet, didn't mind losing some hashrate to testing :)

Luckily I don't pay for power so this is just for fun anyway

that is the way

and now you also run more nodes that create their own templates

nice, I scaled down to 9 kh/s, got 2 shares this morning and it's the 3rd block that paid for both

good to see you can still get something < 10kh/s

so it was essentially paying like I had 54 kh/s

now I only have 1 share in the window

new block!

I landed a share over night :) unfortunately I still haven't seen the new status window :P

we need a bot in here to announce new blocks 😀

uh. I got 10 payouts since the last time I checked. pretty sure I checked yesterday, so, 10 in 24hrs??

or maybe I forgot to check yesterday and it's 48hrs

And now comes my unlucky week

After getting 2 shares

1157 blocks

xmrvsbeast[m]: working on it :), might make a channel later

could have it announce when theres a new miner on the pool too

maybe, we will see

maybe share subscription so it pings you :>

ah sep 10 was definitely luckier than usual, 6 wins. and 4 yesterday which is usual

DataHoarder: damn you beat me to it

just making something that doesn't depend on logs :<

new block!

3 blocks in 30 minutes? nice

what kind of luck is this lol

normal luck

top 10 on miningpoolstats.stream/monero

but not listed on pools.xmr.wiki which comes up as first on google

pauliouk: "chat" link forwards to #monero-pools here, so probably it's already known

yay Your shares position = [2.........1.....1..1......1...]

Height: 2447106/2447106 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.98 GH/s, v14, 58(out)+553(in) connections, uptime 2d 23h 33m 15s

hmm, is it normal? 553 incoming connections to monerod?

that is quite a lot

did you announce as --public?

No

but it runs on the same server as p2pool.io so maybe this is why

could be

My node was receiving new blocks slowly, sometimes with 10 seconds delay

inb4 the attacks start

I just closed port 18080

only outgoing connections + selsta's block list for now

and --add-priority-node=node.supportxmr.com:18080

so, can an uncle have uncles, I think I asked but can't remember

Height: 2447112/2447112 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.99 GH/s, v14, 12(out)+0(in) connections, uptime 1d 2h 48m 29s

I've only got 12

that is out connections

do you have in connections enabled & forwarded?

Yup

unless the router's ignoring upnp

hmm which it is

wouldn't trust upnp

yeah think it only lasts 24 hours on the router

8 out, 1 in

seemed to do the trick

pauliouk "I still haven't seen the new status window :P" I'm honestly tempted to s/our_blocks_in_window_total > 0/our_blocks_in_window_total >= 0/ just so I can see it. :-P

here QuickBASIC I'll give one for you

Haha quickbasic.xyz:3333 lol (don't really have to)

Your shares position = [..............................]

Ah... much better. Now I know what it looks like DataHoarder

Thank you.

:) worth it

I'll give you 10 minutes hashrate either way :)

DataHoarder "I'll give you 10 minutes hashrate either way :)" I was just kidding, but if you want to haha.

maybe share, maybe not

Your shares position = [.1.11.........1....1..1......1]

you probably got no share, rip

interestingly you can give someone shares just by their address on p2pool without having to connect to them, but it all syncs and shows proper

you can have a p2pool fully remote

and you don't have to connect to it to monitor your pool-wise hashrate

DataHoarder . Hashrate (15m est) = 16.405 KH/s You crazy bastard I was kidding. Thank you though.

Probably more than that, it was a few seconds that ran with 50k diff, later I removed that to see if you got shares (but ofc did not report to p2pool)

think of it of XvB hash rate raffle

Haha. Yeah I probably checked it late into the 15 window.

DataHoarder: "and you don't have to connect to it to monitor your pool-wise hashrate" Yeah, but you can't see Stratumserver hashrate and if you rarely get pool shares, you'll just see 0

Yep, just mentioning it for maybe other people that just want to lock down their setup fully and still have some minimal monitoring abilities

Yeah I noticed this the other day b/c I'm running p2pool locally and on VPS so my miners can mine locally if VPS hiccups or I'm rebuilding p2pool from source.

Although once I learned you could hot swap a running executable on the filesystem and restart the process, I just scripted the compile, replace, restart the service and it's up again before my miners pool switch.

Yep, compile first, attach it later

you could have some xmrig proxy in front with two added so it automatically switches over temporarily

I was thinking about it, but the local p2pool instance is running on a 7 year old Celeron laptop with a spinning disk and 4GB of ram, so I'd probably not want it to be the proxy.

it's not THAT bad, given the amount of shares it has to verify

I'm just wondering how much data an advesary could gather by cycling through active miners in p2pool and recording shares on each address. Conceivably, the might could attach specific coinbase outputs to wallet addresses and add it to their statistical model. Not that they'd be able to track it beyond that.

addresses and payouts are public

because each p2pool node needs to check blocks from other nodes, including payouts

sech1: "addresses and payouts are public" yes, I know, this is why we're using separate wallet, but in this case I was saying that the stealth address in the Coinbase can be linked to the real address. Are there any privacy implications of this?

s/Coinbase/coinbase I wish my phone would stop doing that lol.

QuickBASIC: even if you could not link them, you know how much each "wallet" got due to share number

which adds a way to link the output

even if linked

it then gets spent by many other users on-chain

though you might want to avoid grabbing all of the outputs at once :)

DataHoarder: "though you might want to avoid grabbing all of the outputs at once :)" why so?

statistically if they have all outputs linked to X address, and they all get exactly spent in the same transaction, they can probably with quite high certainty say "this is where they all got spent by X"

still doesn't say where it went to anyhow

it's the usual decoy game, but 100% of initial information is known

you can however do the sweep game as well

What ring members are included for coinbase outputs that are sent? Isn't that first transfer going to stick out because it comes from a p2pool block?

TL;DR if you have many inputs all from p2pool payouts and you use them all at once, it's highly improbable someone else picked all those outputs as decoys

Outputs are too small to sweep single for small miners

Probably best to sweep all and then churn a few times before spending

Every now and then

yups

I can see the position share, now I have found shares :D thank you

yay

"Are there any privacy implications of this?" Yes, all payouts can be linked to a wallet address, and spending from that wallet can be detected with high probability because it will almost always spend multiple coinbase outputs

these coinbase outputs will be known as spent, and if someone else uses them in a ring, it will reduce effective ring size

Ah makes sense.

sech1 After hearing you talk about p2pool getting too large for smal miners on MoneroTalk, I was wondering it it would be possible or desirable

to make a way to have a sidechain that disincentivizes large miners. Like diminishing returns for larger amounts of shares or limiting shares allowed per window.

By IP or address, so it's literally impossible for a sidechain with so much hashrate it pushes out small miners

any amount of addresses can be generated QuickBASIC

That way you could have a "default" small miner pool that's not password protected, so small miners who want to pool their mining can do so without needing to seek each other out.

they can even have one address per template :)

sure it's a lot of output spam for large miners

Yes, but it would be hard to have a separate IP per address though right?

If p2pool nodes rejected peers that connect with a different payout address, but same IP, so you can't just cycle through addresses on same IP.

nodes don't all connect to each other, it won't work

limiting by IP will never work

QuickBASIC: the consensus should be based on chain data, not unverifiable data for other new clients after they reconnect

Okay. Makes sense. So the solution for small miners is traditional pool mining then?

or just run another sidechain with other miners?

they will get the same payout on centralized pool minings than p2pool, maybe better on p2pool due to reaching threshold sooner

and yes, you can run a sidechain, you can make your own

but you will not find main blocks, and just have all the shares you want

where here if it grows more, if you find one share, it's good for about 6h, and whatever amount of blocks are found during that time

jaska087: "or just run another sidechain with other miners?" Yes, but you'd have to seek out enough other miners to join that chain to find blocks.

remember that difficulty of side chain adjusts to be about 6h long for 2160 blocks atm

Though is there a reason why you can't extend the ppln window?

output size jaska087

ah right

in the end, you get paid out the same in average

but also giving payouts via p2pool outputs is very cheap, at least for the "pool"

Well yes, but that also decreases mining rewards as no transaction fees are made

:)

well, we still include transactions

vs centralized pool payouts that have the full monero transaction setup

so they are pretty big

Okay, so what happens when there's more than 2160 shares in a window? Does someone get left out?

what was it, 38 bytes per output on coinbase?

QuickBASIC: a window is 2160 shares atm

plus a few uncles

Oh, they're one and the same.

pplns window is not 6h, its 2160 shares

^

at avarage it should be around 6h

difficulty of sidechain will adjust to keep it at 6h average

So share 0 gets dropped out when share 2160 gets added.

but it is measured in sidechain blocks

and that is where the "share position" visualization helps QuickBASIC

Your shares = 7 blocks (+0 uncles, 0 orphans)

Your shares position = [2.......1.11.........1....1...]

every time a share is found, share numbre 2160 is dropped out

your shares are in queue, going further and further in line

(all worth the same, until dropped out)

heh overnight we hit 72MH/s

now 56

Yeah, I understood that part, but somehow I didn't connect that each block _was_ a share for whoever mines that block.

(and uncles, but that's an extra detail)

TL;DR you are basically merge mining

sech1 DataHoarder jaska087 I hope I haven't annoyed you'all too much with questions. I just want to know because I'm sure I'm going to end up explaining it on Reddit a hundred times when binaries are released.

But thank you all for answers.

should have a FAQ around shares/blocks/PPLNS and another about privacy of addresses

^Specific to p2pool

yep

since the amounts are so small, you still wind up waiting a long time for a usable amount. so the only difference is that the dust is in your wallet instead of the pool wallet

so you can maybe sweep_all once/week to your real spending wallet

hyc: "so you can maybe sweep_all once/week to your real spending wallet" for me once every month or so maybe since I've only got 6 payouts since we started.

nice

but, how many blocks paid them out?

I wonder how that happened - my cpu is underclocked and I do less than 1khs ;p and for past 4 days with 3khs I found 0

that's from last few hours - I don't know yet, I have to check my wallet c:

just do status

and see where your shares stand

is this correct?

the part above CzarekNakamoto[m

where it says "Your shares"

and if you have the new version of p2pool

"your shares position"

PPLNS window = 2160 blocks (+73 uncles, 0 orphans)

Your shares = 7 blocks (+0 uncles, 0 orphans)

Your shares position = [.....12........1.2.........1..]

`Your shares = 0 blocks (+0 uncles, 0 orphans)` so I just suck at reading. Pretend like I was never here

they either expired

or you got them just after restarting while it synced

:sadface:

I synced a couple days ago so probably not the case

just check logs I guess

God how do ads work, I mention crypto to friends and they instantly get crypto ads everywhere (without talking about it themselves)

I think phones listen in on conversations and use it for ads though I'm unsure if it's true

If you met them physically there is also association mightysnowman

got the data sources for the bot now, will just reuse framework for it

registered a channel just so it can output new spam there, expecting to get more than a block every few hours in the future :)

Two blocks, finally

Great interview Sech1 !!!

That is going to be a long video to listen to

damn some real bad luck right now

Your shares position = [..................1...1.......]

Current effort (for me): 450%

Maybe this channel could be split between dev type interesting stuff and the mining banter.

that might be good, given more are joining that might not be focused in tech

> 16:15:44 <DataHoarder> so, can an uncle have uncles, I think I asked but can't remember

just answered that myself by checking code, as expected, no

single depth are accounted for shares