<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (dont quote me, i have an existing install and its disabled. I havent checked a clean install recently)

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> cant you disable on cake too?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yes, but its not obvious _and_ the feature is useless, so its even less obvious

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (Cake is enabled by default)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Stack, for example, asks a user very obviously "regular user or incognito mode"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> incog disables all third party services

<b​asses:matrix.org> docs.featherwallet.org/guides/websocket

<b​asses:matrix.org> >By default, Feather connects to the websocket server over Tor, unless configured otherwise in the proxy settings. This way your IP Address is not leaked to the websocket server.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thanks rando

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> hardenedsteel

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ```

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> First, you will need to find a node to connect to. It's important to node that there are publicly advertised remote nodes which are run by malicious actors with the sole purpose of deanonymizing 

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ```

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> @hardenedsteel:monero.social

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> First, you will need to find a node to connect to. It's important to node that there are publicly advertised remote nodes which are run by malicious actors with the sole purpose of deanonymizing user.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> @hardenedsteel:monero.social

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ```

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> First, you will need to find a node to connect to. It's important to node that there are publicly advertised remote nodes which are run by malicious actors with the sole purpose of deanonymizing user.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ```

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> It's important to note* that

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> yes that would be much effective to discourage people

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> working on the screenshots

so what time is the meeting tmrw?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Are we in August 11th all over again?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Who am I and where's my dog?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> 4:20

<m-relay_> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Remember when core paid diego 7500usd/mth from generalfund, didnt tell anybody, and even used other ppls (ccs) monero to make the payments, then blamed diego? <--- we did not "used other ppls (ccs) monero to make the payments". We did not blame diego for this either, refer to my public posts at the time.

<m-relay_> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> or remember when they put out yearly transparency reports after that? (i kid. Its been 1.5yrs since the last one) <--- Remember when people were polite, supportive and cooperative, allowing for most often happy collaborations around the open-source project? My last report was March 2023 and the one before June 2021. If I'm not mistaken that's >1.5yr, so I'm not sure why you feel the need for that bs sarcasm.

I hesitated to answer as your posts often seem to do nothing but sow drama and I usually don't feed this. I hate that false facts are there for anyone to read though, especially when they pertain to my efforts and contributions.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ccs wallet was used to pay him

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It was reimbursed by generalfund

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And initially reports were promised to be (i dont recall) but greater than yearly (quarterly?)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> which "false facts"?

This is false, I was literally making these payments from the GF. I never had access to the CCS wallet.

I don't know why any of this matter and need to be discussed now

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> on occasion, ccs was was used to make payments = true

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> generalfund repaid ccs in those situations

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Well either i was dreaming or i read a false report from you or diego

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I never claimed that you had access to ccs wallet, or that you made payments to diego from the ccs wallet

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> There's a bit of a misunderstanding here. Luigi had a sort of interstitial "hot wallet" that was neither the CCS wallet nor the GF wallet.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The report said "ccs wallet"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> This wallet would be "topped up" by pony with funds from the CCS Wallet to pay out proposals

As for the transparency reports, I came up with the initiative on my own when I took on the GF responsibility. They didn't exist before. And I never promised quarterly ones.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And the interstitial wallet was ccs funds, was it not?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thank you

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> There was a time or two (before BF to control of GF, bf was very punctual) where Luigi paid me out of there if fluffy couldn't pay in a timely manner.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> GF then sent equivalent funds when fluffy became available.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> thank you again, diego

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> This is my understanding of the situation.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> luigi1111 would have to confirm the finer details

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> and werent trans reports as a result of the drama?

Believe it or not it was not. I came up with the first one without the need for any drama from anyone. web.getmonero.org/2020/06/30/gf-transparency-report.html

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> > we have decided that our first report will cover the periods of 2019-2020, with subsequent reports coming out every half-year.

thanks, that's already a slightly more palatable way to nudge me

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "When it was revealed in 2019 that this arrangement had been going on for two and a half years, many people in the community felt that their trust had been betrayed and I shared their feelings. Our rainy-day fund had been severely depleted. I have not felt comfortable donating to the General Fund since. We asked for details about Diego’s role and the work he was performing for<clipped message>

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> you but did not receive a satisfactory response. Diego put out a transparency report, which was not received warmly. He had also committed to putting out a monthly report about the work he was doing. No such reports followed."

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I personally dont give a damn about the reports. Theyre all trust-me-bro anyway

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The quoted statement predates your (bf's) report "before" the drama

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rather i mean to say, the drama was before the reports*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Cant call ofrn a liar

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I have no reason to spread falsehoods

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its possible that i'm wrong / misinformed / poor memory, but i take no pleasure in speaking opinions. If i said "paid out of ccs", then it is because the available facts lead to the conclusion that the wallet only contained ccs funds before being reimbursed by gf

<m​onerobull:monero.social> PSA: Meething in @room at 6pm UTC. Agenda: Discussing Diego's redesign + more.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Who the fuck is diego

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> oh

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> redesign

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Is that to say "good" or "bad"? No. Its just a statement that is based on facts.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> as diego said, you werent in control of gf at the time, so not why you took that statement as a jab towards you. If anything, it would be directed at luigi and fluffy

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> what

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> another core drama?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not sure* why

<b​asses:matrix.org> in 3.5 h?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bf responding to msgs from the other day

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I call that drama

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its "ofrn's a liar" drama today

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> and "ofrn's a bad actor, spreading untrue info to sew discord" or some bs

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> No, ofrn getting called out for speaking half truths and being an ass all the time part MMXXV.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah

let's stay on topic for this channel at least

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Mb, wen r u gonna tell me "offtopic"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Jinx

<c​rz:matrix.org> For me ofrnxmr sticks at the words he is saying. And got high respect now for him what he is doing for XMR and BSX.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> The issue...

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Not this room...

<c​rz:matrix.org> (I’m one of the BSX devs) and think this is the wrong channel :p but was just reading up here.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Issue still reads August 11, no logs. Smh.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> On topic, binaryfate, please check dm about dns / cloudflare

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sent dm a few hrs ago

it's done. Give it time for dns to propagate.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> thank you

ofrn I wrote that in June of 2021, a year after the report. we only found out fluffy had hired diego once bF took responsibility of the GF, so yes you're spreading falsehoods and antagonizing contributors for no reason

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Meeting in an hour and twenty min, wee!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> actually 8 minutes but we can postpone if that is wanted

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Oh wait wut

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Nvm ignore me then. I can be here for either.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <g​eonic> ofrn I wrote that in June of 2021, a year after the report. we only found out fluffy had hired diego once bF took responsibility of the GF, so yes you're spreading falsehoods and antagonizing contributors for no reason

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you said 2019

which was when bF took over ...

anyway, meeting time

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Alright welcome everybody for Monero Website Meeting #3

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> @room

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> @room.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Greets

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hi

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Thank you diego for posting your design, it looks great!

hola

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Thanks.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Happy to discuss it with people in-depth if you all would like.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I've received some feedback over the past few days already.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Sure, not many people here today and this is really our only topic.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I see vostoemisio here

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Haven't got your opinions yet?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I've seen people mention there should also be lightmode and personally I find the orange circles a bit jarring but that's about it.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Were almost rdy to migrate rpc docs from www. to docs.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> future prs for rpc updates should, preferrably, go to docs repo

I guess can we start with what problem(s) the redesign is trying to address? or are we just changing the window dressing

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Of the current, live site?

yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yes

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Or the proposed hammermann design

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Both

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Alright well

haven’t seen the hammermann one. Anyone got a link?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (im "yes"ing re rpc docs. Maybe geo and diego are telling about smthn diff)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The constant feedback of the current design is that it's juvenile, bloated, and doesn't give the impression of a serious money contender.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> getmonero-unofficial-beta.vercel.app

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Geonic ^ hammerman's design

tx

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> for the record, my feedback on diego's was:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> My feedback isnt anything too crazy, but to sum up:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1. Really dont like top section

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2. Really dont like red

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 3. Really dont like _strong_ gradients. Maybe wouldn't mind if they were softer (and not red)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 4. Dont like order of information presented / prefer the get started section at the top

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 5. Dont like wording for exchanges (probably not final anyway)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 6. (new) dont like the circle buttons

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I think my design is a good answer to those issues so far.

is there a mobile version of diego’s proposal available anywhere?

<system> file monero-homepage-demo.png too big to download (2596723 > allowed size: 1000000)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-homepage-demo.png

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Not yet, no. This was just completed a few days ago.

ofrn: and what do you dislike about the current (live site) design?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And wanted to share it to get feedback on the direction before we made a mobile version. Cuz if the community hated it it would have been wasted time.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The current design:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1. its a mess (info is terrible, translation strings are terrible, random pages all over the place)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2. Doesnt have an available dark mode

tbh I’ve only seen people complaining that there’s no dark mode available but maybe I’ve missed some comments

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The two I've heard the most is dark mode and juvenile.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Idk about juvenile. I think it looks fine from a professional standpoint

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who said juvenile?

maybe it’s the animation thumbnails, but I like those

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think the biggest problem is the information overload, and that its poor quality info. Also translation strings are a total mess for contributors

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I think that combined with the simple, flat artstyle of the graphics

the graphics could certainly use an update

<b​asses:matrix.org> Diego Salazar u said you are going to do some edits to the redesign concept before this meething, right?

<b​asses:matrix.org> you were*

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Well, I was and then rotten put out the design in the revo and more feedback came in.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> In the meantime we've been working on other, more non-controversial pages, like FAQ

btw hammermann’s is a decent take on a dark mode site but I think we can do better

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The most important pages that everyone will have an opinion on is the home page, downloads, and a couple of others.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Geonic, did you see the picture i posted

no, didn’t transfer to irc

<b​asses:matrix.org> yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> My opinion is on the hero, the red, the gradient etc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Which i assume span the whole website

<b​asses:matrix.org> are there going to be any CSS animations on the website?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> My primary issue with hammermann's design is bad information architecture and generic graphics / style.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Oh and bad top-level hierarchy, but that could be easily fixed

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Download “monero-homepage-demo_20240908182451.png” with Send: simple, safe file sharing send.vis.ee/download/7686e0bff596e58a/#1s9xwnixOXSVbbdnq2piNA

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> geonic

Oh yeah I’ve seen Diego’s

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 👍

tx

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Ofrn he was asking not for a way to view on mobile, but if I had made the design for how it looks on mobile screens.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Is my understanding. Which I have not.

<b​asses:matrix.org> .

yes

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I wasn't planning on it, but I don't see why there couldn't be?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I know, but i sent the image earlier and he said it didnt come through, so i was sending again

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Ah ok

I guess my issue with the current proposal is that it throws us in a new direction without being bold enough to stand out from other generic coin websites

for example, Kraken's redesign from a few years ago when they introduced purple

that became their color and we recognize it immediately now (at least in the context of crypto)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sir we have introduced circle buttons.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Can't get bolder than that ;)

I'd be very interested to see what a refreshed version of the current design would look like. newer graphics, maybe a different font, etc. + dark mode

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> From this point we have a couple of options:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The color of monero is orange, and the website is like, red, thats my #1 problem 🙃 (aside from the hero)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 1. Abandon idea for new site

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 2. I continue on my design

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont like firo's hero either. Takes like 10 page scrolls to find any useful info

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 3. I try again from scratch

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 4. I don't try again. Someone else tries?

we're paying you anyway so why not try again, right? :p

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I can do other things with the time.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But maybe you prefer indeed all my hours be put here and not elsewhere in the community to limit my influence.

lol

no, that was just the main deliverable in your proposal afair

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Ye

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I, for one, like the design and want to continue forward with it.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think any of the 3 designs are fine, just drop the red, hero, circle buttons, and most importantly the info and presentations / hierarchy of it, also have dark + light modes

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'd reduce the gradients, orangify things, and continue with that.

can we talk about light mode for a second

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I wouldn't drop the hero or the circle buttons for the time being. After delivery, everything will be released openly and people are free to make those changes and submit them for consideration.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sure.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hammermans design works if the info structure is fixed, current design works if we have a dark mode and better info,

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> diego's works if it drops the hero, circles, fixes colors etc.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> My 2.5 cents^

of those three options, I'd go with "current design works if we have a dark mode and better info"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> pretty much

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> personally, i really like the current design so ill agree with that

imo light mode should stay the default for reasons discussed before

<v​ostoemisio:matrix.org> Will check within a few days, been swamped

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sounds good.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Gutting and rebuilding current design might me the hardest of the options, (largely due to the translation setup)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It also keeps us committed to jekyll, which isn't currently maintained as a project.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Meaning, we dont have pages of an english document, we have random sentences scattered throughout strings

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It also also puts us back to square one in terms of things already decided by the workgroup.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Converting current site to hugo was possible, no?

I forget where I've seen that "things already decided" argument before. oh it was sha256

seems like there's consensus around seeing how the current design could be improved rather than going in a brand new direction? or do we vote?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> bro. We've had several meetings about this.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> hammerman's design was "decided", janakas ccs to do it was "decided" (0 downvotes), but we keep moving the goalpost

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And the consensus in those meetings (that had many more participants btw) was 'a new site'

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And its been probably over 6 months since the discussion started that lead to janaka starting the impl and opening the ccs

doesn't seem like your proposal created enough enthusiasm though. if you're unwilling to start again that's ok too

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Circling back every two weeks is because someone new shows up to a meeting and asks that beginning question is really frustrating

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm not unwilling to start again. That's not a problem.

great

so the problem is that I'm in the meeting now?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm also happy to not try again and have someone else try

13th april the seed was planted for the ccs libera.monerologs.net/monero-site/20240413#c363726

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> although this meeting of four people can hardly be counted as ability to gauge enthusiasm. When there has been enthusiasm in this room and others

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> gotten several "looks goods", thumbs ups, an "minor tweak" recommendations

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> the problem is not new people joining the meetings, it's when said people don't respect how far we've come and what we've decided already, and would rather us go all the way back to the beginning

maybe they'll join the meeting next time so we don't have to debate

was monerobull in those meetings? was ofrn?

if my opinion doesn't count, does theirs?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^ well over 6 months

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jan 24 work had already begun @plowsof

or maybe people aren't allowed to change their minds when presented with new information, idunno

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes ive been at every meeting, as has mb

I might've also been if we had proper meta issues :p

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Idk who is new ppl

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i was here b4 the meetings too

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> there have only been 3 official meetings so far

this being the 3rd?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> First one = reopen janakas ccs

alright so what did we decide today

do we have consensus around light mode remaining the default?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> proof of previous consensus

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rstack.com/GFhWUksdBJpFhgseVCanszCh

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> For those on IRC, the message reads:

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Diego Salazar

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Brand new website. New UI. New IA. Plan to make it in Astro. Plan to reopen chch3003 CCS for construction. I'll assist with the design and IA. Content writers cam be recruited from here.

it's visible on IRC

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> thumbs up from:

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> syntheticbird, mb, janaka, rando, sneedlwoods, rbrunner7

you gave us 4 options yourself, now you're saying that consensus is unchengable and we're stuck because of a statement that some people upvoted?

if this is the way you're going to push through your proposals, it's probably not going to work

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> That's not what I'm saying.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Those 4 options are still presented, but we can't act like "consensus" was achieved on one portion or the other atm.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I can put a pause on continuing the design until we can really gather up the opinions, I don't mind.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> janaka:

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> monerobull: let's try again next week, please. Let's get an issue up, reddit post, monero.town etc.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ok, will do that tomorrow

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> My apologies for not doing this myself. I was working on the design, but I'll ensure it's done and the next meeting is well attended.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I will put my design work on pause until this is sorted so no party feels like I'm bulldozing forward despite some dissent.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Dont worry about it

I'm not the expert here, but a job like this usually starts with collecting opinions, then putting out an RFP and working off of that

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Make a version w/o the hero 🙃

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Firo.org's hero is a perfect example of ruining the ux

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Idk who im looking at a big red oage w no info on it, need to ctrl-f to find the downloads

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> [I have to or](web.archive.org/web/20230208134648/https://firo.org)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> oops lol

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> web.archive.org/web/20230208134648/https://firo.org

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> here's firo's old header thing

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I agree with you ofrn, that the new home page is worse.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> they wanted something new for Spark, and wanted big and loud

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I don't think it turned out as bad as you're saying, but I do think the old design was better and could have been lightly tweaked for Spark

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And I said as much from the get go of that homepage redux

alright, thanks for the meeting. gotta go

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> either way, I'll do other things with my hours for the time being.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I like the old page better altogether

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like an 8/10 vs a 6/10

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> judging based on mobile* i didnt check desktop

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Anyway, over the hr. Love to stick around and chat, but we've got work to do

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I got pinged, to much has happened to find it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Oh daniel mcry room ping

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Hey! I was planning to assist the meeting but then I forgot.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I catched up with the messages. It seems that Diego's design proposal is not making consensus.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I also think it needs more work.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I like Hammerman design, and maybe we can just remove the visuals, rearrange things but keep the colors, font, etc

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I think that Diego should publish on Figma, I didn't get why this is not on Figma.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Hiring designers can be quite cheap, in India, Latam, etc. I think it would be interesting to have different people working on it and proposing designs.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Imo the design should be clean, professional. The bitcoin website is great and should be a source of inspiration.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Diego red gradients is too fancy, not serious enough.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Hammerman is clean and pro. Can be even more clean by removing/changing illustrations.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> It is not easy to convey the Monero brand.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Simplicity is often the good answer.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I’ve seen this issue before

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Too many chiefs, not enough indians

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Hey! I was planning to assist the meeting but then I forgot.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I catched up with the messages. It seems that Diego's design proposal is not making consensus.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I also think it needs more work.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I like Hammerman design, and maybe we can just remove the visuals, rearrange things but keep the colors, font, etc

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I think that Diego should publish on Figma, I didn't get why this is not on Figma.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Hiring designers can be quite cheap, in India, Latam, etc. I think it would be interesting to have different people working on it and proposing designs.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Imo the design should be clean, professional. The bitcoin website is great and should be a source of inspiration.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Diego red gradients is too fancy, not serious enough.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Hammerman is clean and pro. Can be even more clean by removing/changing illustrations.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> It is not easy to convey the Monero brand.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Simplicity is often the right answer.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> And simplifying Hammerman design is also good for code maintenance

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Janka made a demo test site is this the same design as what deigo is doing?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> You didn't follow anything..

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Alrighty. Sounds good. I'll publish what we have to figma soon and we'll leave it there for someone to pick up.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> To me it looks like website committe is doing post malone

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Docs site is already up and getting live edits🚀

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Only 2.5 admins deciding

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Haha

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I can also remove the gradients. :P that was never a huge deal.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I don't know if you all recalled but I presented the design with several caveats. One of them was that the hero wasn't a done deal.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I gave a list of like seven caveats.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Imo you should propose multiple designs, on Figma. That's how we do design research.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I think get a rough design and get janaka css moved forward

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I thought penpot was being used?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So you mean do the home screen like 2 or 3 times with differing designs?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes that's what I mean

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Cant find figma in the github

with one of them being a refresh of the current design

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I am currently using figma cuz im most familiar with it. Was planning on a penpot version of whatever was made, but I didn't want to keep janaka waiting longer than needed.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> You don't need to worry about me. Luckily I have other sources of income

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Isnt everthing meant to be on opensource, free beer?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sure. I just know you were frustrated with how long things were taking. But point taken.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> No but it's fine

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 👍️

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Do we want me to do another design then? Meaning, it doesn't have to be me if someone wants to take a crack at it.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Or get other designers.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Far be it from me to turn down work, but I don't want people thinking I'm trying to hog it all and not let anyone else give the designs a go.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Janka ccs said they would use others for design?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> What do you think about just simplifying Hammerman?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I think it would be boring, but you and others think differently.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Our current live site has a personality. It may not be one that everyone likes, but it's a personality all the same.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I just proposed the idea of hiring other deisgners, just to have different proposals, different vibes. But well, it has to be funded, managed, etc

it would be cool to judge them blindly too

<c​hch3003:monero.social> For sure it needs a personality. This is the whole point of design.

isn't that how we ended up with our logo? an open competition of some kind

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> correct, and I don't think the hammermann has much of one. It's very generic.

the personality of ours comes mainly from the graphics, which are easily changed

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> that's not completely correct

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> there's also the fact that it's a block-y site, rather than free flow

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Big bold words and font choice

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> it makes the whole thing feel "constructed", like legos

yes, the blockiness is part of it too

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> the graphics add to this personality yes, probably are 70% of it, but the other elements play a big role

and you have people putting blocks together at the very bottom to complete the visual metaphor

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Imo it depends which sections. The hero could be better. The hero illustration is cheap and generic.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But I like the colors. I like many things too. It could be rearranged, it is not far from something really good.

getmonero.org/img/community-logo.png <= did anhdres do this one?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rstack.com/pLhSfNjziuVLswXoDNquTIxf

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> this is how mine looks without the gradient and with things more orange btw

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> yes andres did that drawing

<3​21bob321:monero.social> If you create a base site first and then people can pr to it like docs does with test branch?

that looks better diego

chch3003: what are the main issues the new design trying to solve in your opinion?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes it is better without gradients

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Which design geonic?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> the disclaimers I sent when I first shared were hero

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> *here

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> the hero was something specifically mentioned as not being final btw :P

any one of them. what are the key things we're looking for in a new website?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> A few disclaimers:

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 1. The icons are (obviously) not final

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 2. This whole thing isn't final. Subject to feedback.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 3. Hero image at the top isn't final, but could be. We're still experimenting with some things.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 4. May add some more images here and there, like in the About Monero section. Going back and forth on that.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 5. You can talk mad shit, I won't be offended. It just means you have terrbile taste. ;)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> For those on IRC that can't just click to see that message

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> (and yes, 5 was a joke about bad taste :P)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Imo it depends which sections in Hammerman design. The hero could be better. The hero illustration is cheap and generic.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But I like the colors. I like many things too. It could be rearranged, it is not far from something really good.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> You got feedback

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> imgur.com/a/g5moyd8

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> looking for in new website:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> - simplicity / clean design

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> - easy onboarding

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> - easy maintenance

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Non-gradiented, orangified version ^

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes ofrnxmr

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Imgur is very poor on mobile

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> sorry ofrn sec

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rstack.com/DjsfGOXEsqCXaGuGRBnXcqYR

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> any other image upload sites I can upload to?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Just use Figma FFS

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I do, but the current workspace is a mess

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Like a imgur?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> sech usually just uses his domain to post files on

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Put your stuff in a separate page and that's it

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> figma.com/design/OuY892nD4zD1CEQDvC…y)?node-id=1-2&t=Cw2vNEUuzLFfr9WT-1

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Thank you

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> like barging into my room when I haven't cleaned up yet :'(

<3​21bob321:monero.social> There sftp or imgur

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Penpot

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> but either way, that's the design without the gradient

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I, personally, think it looks better w/o the gradient atm

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Well yes,

<c​hch3003:monero.social> simplicity / clean design

<c​hch3003:monero.social> easy onboarding

<c​hch3003:monero.social> easy maintenance

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Imo Hammerman can be simplified, making it cool without depending on illustrations. I like the colors, the fonts, the menu.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> if you'll go to the dropdown menu section on the figma file, you'll see what we have planned for the dropdown

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> not just a word list, but have some small icons to use also

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/send monero/spend monero

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes I like your dropdown

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (Send is fine)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Also janaka you said "The bitcoin website is great and should be a source of inspiration."

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I was literally told the opposite as part of the feedback. ofrnxmr was that you who said it?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I would try using the same background color as Hammerman. It's just a color just background color is quite important. I don't really like Diego bg

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> "bitcoin.org should not be used as reference" XD

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I would try using the same background color as Hammerman. It's just a color but background color is quite important. I don't really like Diego bg

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> here it is

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> it was rando

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rando probably said this

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Correct! Grand prize for you.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I want rocky rd ice cream

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Alright, see you later my friends

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Keep it up!

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Anyway, dont forget that most guides wont need to be on www.getmonero.org

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Will be on docs.getmonero.org

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> color changed

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> take a quick look before you go

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And need to think of what 2 do with the circles

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> squircles or rounded squares, rounded rectangles are probably more pleasing

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Similar to these element display pics >> circles are so 2016

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The faded monero M background image looks cool.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> would be cool if the background was static and the monero M was always visible

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yep I think I prefer that color

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I said before we could hire cheap designers, but actually we could also hire a very good designer.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Because there is design and design. We want something excellent? It's actually possible. Just hire someone excellent.

<b​asses:matrix.org> Rando was right

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> Diego Salazar:

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> can you add a section for pending/required tasks?

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> like developer board?

<b​asses:matrix.org> Diego and vost are great

<b​asses:matrix.org> just need to find their inner monero design

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Oof. Oh well, can't win them all.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> In terms of the design? Like what pages left to do?

<b​asses:matrix.org> looks good, can the circles be improved because they look generic (don't have anything on mind)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Shaded/3d rounded rectangles

<c​hch3003:monero.social> My opinion is that it is not bad, but it is not great

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But art is subjective

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So they look like buttons

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> general board or maybe two section board

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> monero related projects, that abandoned or in need of assistance for newcomers to see if they can try them

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> it could be awesome to have that on the official website instead of begging every person on matrix to make some half ass list by yourself

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Design is more objective than subjective.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Design is not just art. It is not just veneer.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> If a color change makes the most users, accomplish their goals with less confusion, in less time. Then it is objectively better design.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> There is an artistic element to it, yes. But it is indeed a science as well.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> UI and UX

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> One of my element clients in in dark mode, the other in light mkde

<c​hch3003:monero.social> And people specialize only in one of them sometimes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont use element x, cuz its trash UI and UX

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The colors that were chosen for the backgrounda for example were not chosen randomly, but for good contrast without too much contrast. Because too much contrast actually wears on the eyes.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm not saying you need to think my design is great btw. A lot of it was very in flux and I shared it to get some thoughts on the general direction.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes, which is why you need light and dark. I cant stare at either for too long

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Ok but did you spend more than a week?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think its getting better

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I instead got thoughts on all of the specifics. It was my mistake to share something still so WIP.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Of real world time, yes. Of man-hour time, no.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> It's WIP

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I am a web dev, I work with designers every day

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I know when it's good and when it is not good enough

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Alright. Well if your verdict is it isn't good enough then I'll axe this design. You want me to touch up hammermann's instead?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Or, again, we can find someone else if we think my skills aren't up to snuff. No offense taken.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Maybe, simplifying Hammerman, making it less generic

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Adding a touch

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And this would include the IA overhaul, yes?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Or you personally want to see the ia stay as is?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I didn't dig enough to compare your IA with Hammerman

<c​hch3003:monero.social> If you can explain your changes, and why you made them, would be helpful

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Alright well, give it a look when you have a moment and let me know.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sure I'm happy to do so.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hammermann's home page in particular has way way way too much on it.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Remove sponsors, remove roadmap, remove blog posts, remove mailing list

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Communities is iffy. I, for one, think people aren't coming to Monero to join the community. They're coming to learn how to use it or get a wallet.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Would be nice if you can add a sitemap to Figma

<c​hch3003:monero.social> How you want to organize info

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> My sitemap will be similar to the current, live site

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm also really not a fan of this "individuals, Businesses, Developers" division.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> or, sorry, bitcoin.org uses that one

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> hammerman simplifies to just "Individuals, Developers"

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Right

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> does away with Businesses

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I don't have strong opinion on that

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I am ok with both

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> if you look at the dropdown menu portion of my figma file, you'll see more or less how I planned things, which is pretty similar to the current site.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The major change is in the Resources section

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes , it works as well

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Put Moneropedia, Library, and About in the Knowledge Base

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> rather than having their own top level items

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I might honestly even put Blog in Community or Resources rather than its own top-level item seeing as how it's not really perused that much? But given we announce releases there I'd keep it as is.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> either way, yeah, the major change I was thinking was combining Moneropedia, Library, and About into the Knowledge Base.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And with the guides going to be hosted by ofrnxmr and team on the docs initiative, we can maybe eliminate those also

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Bitcoin is trying to posit itself as a quasi science thing (developers), quasi money thing (businesses), and quasi store of value thing (individuals), hence their hierarchy

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Monero is trying to say it's money. It made from tech, yes. It's got cool science behind it, yes. But it's money.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> and I think the organically developed top level hierarchy is probably stronger.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> sorry to ramble on this, you said you don't have a strong opinion. I do. :P

<c​hch3003:monero.social> OK but a like the professional touch of Bitcoin

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> OK but you're wrong

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> just kidding

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> bitcoin.org's design itself (not ia or top level hierarchy) is very good, yes

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> albeit they're kind of generic too, because now everyone uses the lines and nodes thing

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> but they get a pass cuz they're Bitcoin

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Money is a serious matter

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Correct. My design (especially the hero) leans towards a "movement"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Bitcoin's leans towards "a technology"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> hammermann's with current graphics says "business" but that's just because those generic graphics are used by every business ever

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> remove the graphics and it says something different

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes, and in my opinion it is not serious enough

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> You're speaking to mine, yes?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes

<c​hch3003:monero.social> And I agree hammermann has some generic aspect I dislike too

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Your thoughts on my analysis of the three designs (mine, hammerman, bitcoin.org)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I am ok with your Information flow

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> so if the hero was to be reworked to be less "movement" and more "serious money" would this satisfy you?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> or does the rest of the page also give issues?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i dont like the slogan catch phrase, hero, whatever.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Regarding the design, I like something simple, clean, pro.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Like, for me Monero is the best money we have now.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> This is important. This is very serious. The website has to be clean.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Not surfing on the hype, making it coool, like a meme.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I've honestly never been a fan myself, as I said before. But it caught on with the community because of Daniel Kim's presentation

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I didnt watch and it never caught on w me

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The crowd isnt always right

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Maybe we should even start with light mode

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Dark mode is harder

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I've removed the Monero symbol as well if you wanted to take a look

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> bitcoin.org doesn't have anything there

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i liked the monero symbol :P

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> (also shrunk the hero size)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> have to check on a pc later on

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> (font sizes and button sizes not yet adjusted)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I perfer that version, more sober

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> ofrnxmr:

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Monero is 3 fucking billions today

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rstack.com/OEBcSRBsdSidytBPGWeERFDd

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Maybe 30 in a years

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thats my pocket wallet

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> be better

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Maybe 30 in a few years

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> image.png

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rstack.com/eJmeIACpZNdEfCIDVmefkOdn

<c​hch3003:monero.social> This is not a meme coin

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Not for me at least

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I like the two first but this one is ugly thats for sure

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Your thoughts on the current, live version then?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> cuz sizes not adjusted

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Sober, clean, pro, with a subtil badass touch

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> define badass?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> bc i am and I wonder why you didn't tell syntheticbird instead

<c​hch3003:monero.social> How can I define that. That's the artist touch

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lmao ok I see what you mean

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2nd one is my fav of the 3

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But smaller hero

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes Diego, I like it better now. Don't hesitate to create multiple variants.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Can leave the monero symbol on the BG, unattacked from the hero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So its always in view

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I agree the second is better

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> janaka: disagrees?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> My honest opinion is that they are both not good enough

<c​hch3003:monero.social> hehe sorry

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I didnt say good enough

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Don't take it personally

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> No worries.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I said 2 > 1 and 2 > 3

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I don't, don't worry.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> What I'm really trying to find out is the path forward.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> If my skills aren't up to snuff, that's fine.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I prefer 3

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But that means we need to find a designe.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I said 2 > 1 and 2 > 3 janaka

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But that means we need to find a designer.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> We can just hire an agency

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> janaka i dont want the monero symbol attached to the hero, but to be the background that the page scrolls on top of

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Can you give us an example and/or quote from one?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> As a part of the hero, it makes the hero too big

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I don't know, not my role to micro manage every little design decisions.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> that was in reply to ofrnxmr right? :P

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I don't have a specific agency in mind but there are plenty

<c​hch3003:monero.social> yes

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> A recommendation from an agency you trust and/or would recommend would be helpful.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> The agency or freelance designer doesn't need to be Monero enthousiast

<c​hch3003:monero.social> They can make anything as long as we provide clear guidelines

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Does everyone agree this is the route we should take?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> (vote doesn't need to be now, asynchronous)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hire an external design agency to design us something.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Would like vostoemisio opinion also, given he's also a designer

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> (I know you said you're busy, just whenever you have a chance)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> The agency or freelance designer doesn't have to be Monero enthousiast

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Let's continue this discussion later. Have a good evening guys.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> seeya!

I skimmed through meeting logs. I'll limit my comments to the fact that I would find it ridiculous to hire an external agency to design "the" Monero website. Thinking in those terms put us in line with practices from stupid meme coins and other "crypto" projects that are designed and lead entirely as for-profit, professional ventures.

Unlike nearly all other projects in the crypto space we have aboundant resources of Monero enthousiast gravitating around, and if we can't put that in effect and manage to move forward together somehow, we don't deserve to call ourselves a cypherpunk or even an open-source project.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i agree with that in terms of hiring an agency

About the argument that Monero has to behave or show itself in a certain way or not because of its "3 Billion valuation", to be soon "30 Billions in years": Fine to discuss the "serious persona" we want to present to the world in context of the website, but do you need to bring market cap into that to make your point? It never was acceptable to discuss price on Monero channels (except then dedicated ones like -markets); now we bring explicit

price discussion even in context of a website design. It is uninspiring.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> In terms of hiring an outside* agency

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Technically Diego and vost both run agencies, dont they?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Darn it, the CCS was for me, not for Cypher Stack.

so why do you keep using “we”?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other. The ccs wasnt for design work, its just where the hrs are going now. CS design team is you and the misses, and thats the same team working on the design. Right?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> regardless, i said that im NOT against hiring internal agencies (like your or vost's)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But AM against going outside of the monero community to pay some company to do it for us and then leave

not sure how hiring diego is different, especially since he does this for random shitcoins as well, which is literally what binaryFate wants to avoid (?)

<b​asses:matrix.org> I will do the redesign in Paint

<b​asses:matrix.org> if it doesn't keep crashing

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Yes I was joking

<b​asses:matrix.org> I find it ridiculous to hire a design agency that will probably create it like other "get rich" cryptoscams, if hiring someone that's is not familiar with crypto at all, it will be also confusing for them on what info section and parts to priortize first

geonic: You're welcome to get whatever agencies to make ccs proposals and join our little IRC/matrix meetings, at that point I'm sure their input would be welcome. But tbh I think you're just playing devil's advocate.

You’re right, I am. All I’m saying is I get the same vibes from Diego that you’re getting from an outside agency. He just knows how to write a CCS.

An open call for proposals with a bounty for the chosen one might be a good middle ground

<b​asses:matrix.org> thoughts on this design ark.io ?

<b​asses:matrix.org> arcana.network with less bloat and spacing, very moderinsh

the first one is generic, the second one is too slick

trying too hard to sell itself

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Lol your clueless

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> You're

<b​asses:matrix.org> stacks.co

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> My design and responses to feedback were informed, topical, and in the spirit of the ethos

<b​asses:matrix.org> thoughts on this circle button?

<b​asses:matrix.org> pb.envs.net/?dcf15c03681b2a1d#EvzDi…9rQ4Rw3WM65UgNxDkdBuAk6jEfuYFyt412n

<b​asses:matrix.org> sorry if link URL too huge

<b​asses:matrix.org> Diego Salazar

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sure. The circle buttons can be souped up.

<b​asses:matrix.org> ignore `transform: scale` if they are too much

<b​asses:matrix.org> just realized I paste CSS twice lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> can add outer glow too

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Might not work for you...

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Sold!

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> looks great