<plowsof:matrix.org> "The website is built using the Astro framework, which is a JavaScript static site generator that allows for modern web development features while shipping zero client-side JavaScript by default."

<syntheticbird> breaking the default

<plowsof:matrix.org> "Enforced no client-side JavaScript in shipped pages through CI (JavaScript used at build time only)."

<syntheticbird> Is that the CCS statement?

<syntheticbird> If so, the widget can be tested and put on the side. Wait for @redsh4de:matrix.org to complete, and then PR

<plowsof:matrix.org> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/620

<redsh4de:matrix.org> it is, that's why was wondering how strict the requirement on no JS is

<redsh4de:matrix.org> if i want the toggle i actually have to do a lot of extra work so that the CI even allows the toggle

<plowsof:matrix.org> 😆

<redsh4de:matrix.org> because as per the CCS i made it so any, any hint of JS gets burned and destroyed

<redsh4de:matrix.org> would be hilarious if adding the toggle renders the CCS invalid xD i'll make it but in a seperate branch, as a PR

<syntheticbird> @redsh4de:matrix.org: I think there should be a toggle, but my burned eyes aren't worth the pain you'll get through if you try re discussing your CCS statement

<redsh4de:matrix.org> CI will fail on it but yea

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: i'll still migrate to light-dark this is real nice

<plowsof:matrix.org> janaka also wanted to add some JS and had pushback repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Can make it use dark theme by default if the browser doesnt report the system settkng?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> So tor users get dark theme

<syntheticbird> nope

<redsh4de:matrix.org> possible i think

<redsh4de:matrix.org> not sure if with light-dark though

<syntheticbird> definitely not with light-dark

<syntheticbird> WHY ARE YOU SPOILING EVERYTHING OFRN

<syntheticbird> WE WERE THIS CLOSE FROM PERFECTION

<redsh4de:matrix.org> another option

<redsh4de:matrix.org> although this is cursed

<syntheticbird> BUT YOU HAD TO COMPLAIN

<redsh4de:matrix.org> and never should be done

<syntheticbird> YOU AND YOUR EGO

<redsh4de:matrix.org> is making a no-JS toggle

<redsh4de:matrix.org> how would that work?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> we simply generate double the pages

<redsh4de:matrix.org> one light theme, and one dark theme

<redsh4de:matrix.org> 😂

<plowsof:matrix.org> 🥱

<syntheticbird> horrible

<redsh4de:matrix.org> then we would have routes like beta.monerodevs.org/en/dark/what-is-monero

<syntheticbird> heresy

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I just dont want to change my system setting so i can see the light theme

<syntheticbird> perfect then let it be light by default

<syntheticbird> so that he convert everything into light-dark

<syntheticbird> he will join the cult

<syntheticbird> and I will fulfill my divine duty

<plowsof:matrix.org> its not like no js was an important part in gaining support for merging of the CCS or needed to be stated clearly in the proposal, who adheres to their proposals anyway nowerdays

<syntheticbird> @plowsof:matrix.org: definitely kewbit

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org: Can still leave it as a pr and get wider communoty feedback before actual deployment or smthn

<syntheticbird> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: what i proposed yes

<redsh4de:matrix.org> well yeah like i said, as per the CCS - there won't be any JS in what i ship

<redsh4de:matrix.org> but i will make a seperate branch, not to be merged in main with that option

<redsh4de:matrix.org> if later when the page is on getmonero.org people do open up to the idea of having that small bit - people can then later merge it, then its out of my hands

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @syntheticbird: Fuck you

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I did try the light theme (had to use tor browser 🤮). It is a bit rough on the eyes

<syntheticbird> wait did I got teleported into an alternate universe or ofrnxmr is complaining about light mode?

<syntheticbird> every light mode sucks

<syntheticbird> the human brain isn't designed to process that much lack of colors

<syntheticbird> trust me I have on shared brain cell with a lot of people and we all think the same

it didn't evolve to look at a screen

<syntheticbird> I'm actually born with an HDMI port. checkmate meat man

<321bob321> boomer

<321bob321> display port now

<syntheticbird> so true

<redsh4de:matrix.org> redsh4de/monero-site #104

<redsh4de:matrix.org> -41 +14, love it

There you stood on the edge of your feather,

Expecting to fly.

<syntheticbird> lmfao the commit message

<redsh4de:matrix.org> togglel

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/xCJLUEwnmOnuJsjnlwtYJgzh.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @syntheticbird:monero.social:

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/RyleGUUFQTMMdPfVzBxHrSql.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> toggle itself uses exactly 9 whole lines of javascript

<redsh4de:matrix.org> if JS is disabled - goes back to inferring theme from browser/system and toggle never appears

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/RLsUAyzZoQlSsKgeKiTilDpI.png (image.png)

since we are breaking conventions can we add a price ticker?

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> guess this is why they call it a slippery slope :P in any case not sure where a good place would be

<redsh4de:matrix.org> but yeah this will live on the cancer/js-theme-toggle branch when i push it as this is radioactive and will not pass CI anyway

how many lines of js is a price ticker

<redsh4de:matrix.org> a couple magnitudes more than the theme toggle for sure

<redsh4de:matrix.org> eh actually if you fetch from coingecko not that much

its just one get? lol

<redsh4de:matrix.org> not needed anyway, not essential

<redsh4de:matrix.org> yeah just get from a external source, moreso the formatting and display to make it look nicer

didn't I say ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

just go against your proposal and make it pass CI

<redsh4de:matrix.org> redsh4de/monero-site f9d2021

is there a citation for that?

or did you create this themetoggle yourself?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> yeah no citation needed, it just stores the last set variable in local storage, loads it if one was set, falls back to prefers-color-scheme

<redsh4de:matrix.org> and responds to system theme changes in either case

no citation needed so you created it yourself?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> yes

had to twist your arm to cite my CI workflows after you refactored them with AI so im just wondering

thanks for confirming

<redsh4de:matrix.org> its very minimal - one localstorage variable, load and fallbacks

redsh4de: thanks for your feedback. my comments on that: what is the problem if a page is AI generated? does it make it less valueable? the purpose of a page is to display information and adopt as fast as possbiel. whats the point to develop 6 month what you can have in one week? a static generated web page has no security issues. your argument I dont understand. to your 3. point. do you consider the

page as a draft? its not a content ready web page. its just a first impression. the issue with the content and the order of information is the least barrier. have you created a sales landing page before? what was your experience. your current draft is a CMS system. the user who comes first time visiting monero dont know what to do. the best results if you have a clear path of interaction with a call to

action goal. you can have a knowledge base later on. its like an ad. you dont present 1000 page of information for someone to buy. conversion is the number one obstacle in monero. monero needs a clear guidance. just to blow up someone with information makes zero sense. I had my struggle to figure out how to use monero. you come to the webpage the first time and you are overhelmed with information. ofc

some arrogant people might think I am just too stupid to understand but with that approach you just lose momentum. you build a currency for adoption not for an elite sitting in a tower looking down. in every business you have a clear path of user interaction. if you let the user alone he will go left and right and get frustrated on the way. thats why the first page needs to be a little bit more

entertaining. a sales page that animates the user to buy the product monero. you have to think more from a business and marketing perspective. and I am not a fan of animations and many colors too. I said it already, but what converts and what is your subjective opinion is not the same. on a core level you dont need to agree with what people wants but we talk about a landing page that should be made user

centric first. what converts is what is the best. so can we agree on this purpose or goal at least?

and consider that with the help of AI I was able to make this page in one day. you have been sitting for it since 6 month. do you see the difference?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> the difference is one codebase is maintainable and consistent

<redsh4de:matrix.org> the other isn't

<redsh4de:matrix.org> a webpage isn't just shiny effects it's all the infra features happening in the background that the end user does not see

<redsh4de:matrix.org> localization, theming, compatible icons with a vast majority of browsers

<redsh4de:matrix.org> CI/CD for validation, workflows

<redsh4de:matrix.org> its easy to just broadstroke "oh i proompted this design in one day via Claude and you have been doing this for 3 months" without understanding the context of what the 3 months were spent on

redsh4de: sorry for my tone but who cares? the result matters. nobody develop in assamble - why because its slow in development. we shifted to higher languages like python that are not perfect on a core level but make the job done faster and easier. so why holding on old pattern? we use AI to generate templates that FIT. if you use hugo zola or astro nobody cares.

<redsh4de:matrix.org> People that have to maintain and run and update the site do

<redsh4de:matrix.org> proompting everything and ending up with something that looks subpar and that other people have difficulty contributing to unless they also proompt with their AI models is a complete non-starter

<redsh4de:matrix.org> because you are not developing the website for just yourself

<redsh4de:matrix.org> but for everyone else who might add things to it later

ofrnxmr: as I said its not a end result, it should just show the direction.

rsch you are not serious but thanks for showing what the site could be

docs.astro.build/en/tutorial/6-islands/2 looks familiar

or astro-tips.dev/recipes/dark-mode

<redsh4de:matrix.org> didn't look at either of these

<redsh4de:matrix.org> * the lucide icons i downloaded are literally called sun & moon

impressive(css): well done

<redsh4de:matrix.org> plowsof: this is too overcomplicated at first glance

and about the mascot I dont agree with it. a logo yes but a mascot is too silly. this kind of idean have to come from females.

@plowsof: what do you mean with not seirous?

redsh4de: who says you have to use AI only? the most important is the content. for that you can use a template engine like zalo

but writing css from scratch like in 2000 makes no sense if you can use AI. just look to the page I generated and the page that was developed for 6 month. speed matters too. so im just wondering if we should move away from micro controling focusing on more important topics like content and transaction and marketing.

plowsof: do you think I have nothing better to do than joining a channel in my freetime and try to improve something without anything in return if im not serious about? what do you think I am a troll?

<ofrnxmr> You're not coming across as someone capable of working in a community or team

<ofrnxmr> Youve spent more time trying to shove your opinion down our throats, than you spent vibe coding a 4/10 website

"one-shotted" (to quote an MRL meeting)

<ofrnxmr> You come across as terribly entitled. For someone who spent 20mins telling ai to modify getmonero.org (by changing colors and making it ugly), youve not earned any respect yet you demand it.

this is a FOSS project, its possible rsch is correct and we're all wrong - thats the beauty of this all, but come on, you are advising us on how to sell monero when you can't sell your own idea correctly - at least........ you where not aware of the redesign until a few hours ago, this isn just not serious at all

<ofrnxmr> He could very well be correct, but that website is still ugly

<ofrnxmr> Ai did a disservice by letting him think it was presentable

i will never forget the website or this interaction

plowsof: interesting how you feel triggered. im here in my free time and get no payment. why should I not be straight? I am direct and want direct responses. if that offends you im sorry for that but maybe you should wonder why it does. its not the first time I contribute you and most of the time I feel to walk on eggshels. maybe we should grew up and stop being so emotional. I am serious to improve the

project and yes I expect that this effort is respected and appriciated. does it mean you have to agree with evertything I present. no I dont expect it. but the state of the current webpage is embarrassing and its time to redesign it. so thanks god someone is there already doing it since 6 months but if you need another 6 months to put it online its too late. and yes im here to stresstest the current

state so im asking you to be less judgemental and be more focused on the topic instead getting personal or emotinoal. thank you

plowsof, look to the chat above. I have said that I know the redesign already and it was offline yesterday. but I was also not sure if it was official or just a normal user making a draft as me. thats why I am here before putting an issue in github and getting feedback after days. I think im right here talking to the people who take the decision.

<redsh4de:matrix.org> i dont think anyone's being emotional? just honest with their opinion

<redsh4de:matrix.org> and fwiw, the implementation of the redesign was started in late october. so active development has been going on for a little over 2 months, not 6. 6 months ago was just when the design was approved

I want to colaborate with you guys and not to offend you and Im not here to sell anything but to make aware of improvements. so again less judgement and less interpretation of intention and more focusin on the topic.

rsch link to your previous work / contributions

youve not shared the source of the site you shared

<ofrnxmr> Its official and has been for 6 months

<ofrnxmr> there have been multiple designs presented, multiple iterations

I had my issues to figure monero out visint the page the first time because its difficult to get an orientation. dont be so arrogant to acknowledge that monero has not the best marketing. monero has an fantastic technology and its painful to watch it having low awareness because the presentation has a lack of skill. and i dont want to apologize for me having this opinion. I would like to see monero

growing. is that bad?

<ofrnxmr> It is now in the implementation stage.

plowsof you want me to deplay the current design or what you mean?

<ofrnxmr> Where is your source code

<ofrnxmr> What other websites have you designed

<ofrnxmr> What contributions have you made to monero or other projects

I fixed a bug for example

<ofrnxmr> Aside from the 20mins you spent today telling duckai to make a new skin for getmonero.org

in moneros wallet

<ofrnxmr> which

ofrnxmr: why have you not done it then yourself instead letting the page like that for years?

ofrnxmr: wait a moment

nah you're not serious

<ofrnxmr> rsch: Because the current website, visually, is fine

<ofrnxmr> the main and arguably the only reasons were switching designs, is 1. To redo the content from scratch 2. To add a dark theme

<ofrnxmr> Reusing the current theme was a very popular option

ofrnxmr: monero-project/monero #9943 and monero-project/monero #9945. but let me guess you will talk it down right?

ofrnxmr: the new website is good for content management but the first landing page should be more salsy more like a project presentation. it is not at the moment. my design was just an approach to add a flare to it

<ofrnxmr> rsch: No, this was a good find and fix

ofrnxmr: so can you stop talking my efforts down and refuse ideas that you dont agree. I think I have a point and my intentions are only trying to help the project.

<ofrnxmr> No

<ofrnxmr> This website skin sucks

and it does not matter if my approach is using AI or not. AI is the future. and not ultizing it its foolish.

ofrnxmr: what exactly sucks? the colors? the sizes? I can try a new approach if you can tell me what is missing

we have low awareness cause we are not on coinbase unlike fartcoin

<ofrnxmr> The fact everyone can immediately tell that the website was thrown together in 20mins by some free-tier LLM = it sucks

<redsh4de:matrix.org> the redesign improves on the presentation aspect > <rsch> ofrnxmr: the new website is good for content management but the first landing page should be more salsy more like a project presentation. it is not at the moment. my design was just an approach to add a flare to it

<redsh4de:matrix.org> on load you get two call to actions in the hero - get started and about monero. first moves you to a section with three steps to get started using monero, and the second moves you to a informational page. whole flow of the index page optimizes for presentation and doesn't waste space or user attention

<ofrnxmr> It has zero personality, its just a not-good reskin

<redsh4de:matrix.org> nioc: this is the most of it

ofrnxmr: :D

interesting

the reason you can say is because you are developers and you had to look into the codebase

<ofrnxmr> I didnt even pay attention to the placement of anything. The skin / theme is bad

a normal user will never think like that

ofrnxmr: hows that?

just ask AI to make it better - why request feedback from the people you have trashed (for helping create the current redesign)

imma goin back to watching NGU

<ofrnxmr> Its like how some people think toilet water tastes good

joining to give my 2 cents. LLM slop is unmaintainable and should not be used outside of demos. All this talk about "AI being the future" is off-topic and BTW it's a bubble that will come crashing down 2026-2027. Kind regards

plowsof: nobody has trashed anyone, this is what you feel. if I wanted to trash someone I would never spend my time thinking about the project improvements. its just judgemental

ofrnxmr: this is actly what I think about the current website

<ofrnxmr> you can think whatever you want about the current website, its deprecated

octavian lets make a bet

<ofrnxmr> The future is beta.monerodevs.org

<ofrnxmr> If you don't like beta.monerodevs.org, improve it

ofrnxmr: exactly and it should be deprecated. I wanted to know if you agree to change the start page to make it more like a funnel and a business landingpage.

<ofrnxmr> This is a community design, and community implementation. Your contributions are welcome

ok got it I try a PR and we will see

I just wanted to check if there is any resistance because its also my freetime to do that

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: ^

<redsh4de:matrix.org> like we said, if you have an idea for improvement, open up a pull request, previews are enabled, nobody is stopping you

<redsh4de:matrix.org> maybe we are all wrong and if you are sure what you are proposing will look good then try it instead of non-productively arguing

only took 6 ish hours

<ofrnxmr> If we were ai, we wouldnt argue or offer resistance. We'd just do it

redsh4de: what is wrong against an open discussion?

plowsof: I got the point that you dont see the value in this discussion. thanks for your comment on that

<redsh4de:matrix.org> an open discussion does not move development further

<redsh4de:matrix.org> opening a PR to the repo does

im not a fan of astro but its ok

don't make the PR from your master branch (tip)

plowsof: which branch

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> make a new branch

ofc I will do a new branch I will not start from scratch but you branch from another branch and I guess it will be master

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @redsh4de:matrix.org: It does if i am an LLM

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i guess so

redshe4de, what is the most recent branch in your repo? master or another one?

for a PR

<redsh4de:matrix.org> the main branch - you should make a fork, then on your fork make a new branch from main - something like feat/better-index, and make your changes there

ok

and just to share my 2 cents on the topic retoswap. yes the landing page is what I am looking for monero. it presents a clear visual image of the client is. has a call to action to download the client. the content can be improved but thats what I would like to see in monero. I make a proposal and then you can bash on it

<redsh4de:matrix.org> knowledge base route deployed: beta.monerodevs.org/resources/knowledge-base

<redsh4de:matrix.org> as always images are the bottleneck

<redsh4de:matrix.org> that’s it from me for today

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @syntheticbird:monero.social: toggle stuff: github.com/redsh4de/monero-site/compare/cancer/js-theme-toggle

<redsh4de:matrix.org> for CI to pass i'd probably have to allow <script> tags in HTMLHint, and then in CI check that script tags are only used in Layout & ThemeToggle, and compare the sha256 of the contents to some pinned thing

<redsh4de:matrix.org> getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app deployed the version with toggle on my vercel instance

<redsh4de:matrix.org> monero-tools will be organized into 3 sections as well

<redsh4de:matrix.org> explore, develop, accept payments

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/slEzzjjgeWCUCNMiPLefxTEn.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/MZtZsXxORjccEydcRotitfAO.png (image.png)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @redsh4de:matrix.org: There are multiple monero-pythpn repos, i dont think the old one is maintained, and dont think the new one is ready cc plowsof

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Yeah that was one of the links i replaced

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Theres also monero-go or go-monero (i dont remember)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @redsh4de:matrix.org: Replaced what with what?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> github.com/moneropay/go-monero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The old one is probably the correct one until further notice

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But i defer to plowsof on that. I dont mess with monero-python

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: github.com/everoddandeven/monero-python

<redsh4de:matrix.org> this one, the one on the current site was archived

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah but the current one works

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> :P

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (Afaik)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> if it does then no prob, saw it was archived and assumed it's deprecated

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> There once was a brilloant idea to transfer ownership of numerous projects to the monero-ecosystem github org

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The sole owner of that org crashed out and archived everything

<redsh4de:matrix.org> 💀

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> at least he didnt delete everything, right

Binaries for latest version v0.18.4.5 are now available at getmonero.org

<redsh4de:matrix.org> when is the monero CDN going to start hosting torrent files for the builds as well? Will be needed for the new website

Thanks binaryFate

redsh4de some small things todo on the back end + a little glue. Alsonthe signed hashes for donation address/qrs will hopefully be sometime this week

<redsh4de:matrix.org> nice nice

<redsh4de:matrix.org> uploaded the new hashes.txt on the page - had to temporarily make CDN comparison optional, but live there too now: beta.monerodevs.org/downloads

release notes since last deploy github.com/monero-project/monero-site/releases/tag/2025-01-11

building torrent...

1 seed in progress (from the RSS feed) github.com/plowsof/monero-torrent/releases/tag/v0.18.4.5

4 up so the magnet links will work, just no webseed yet

<redsh4de:matrix.org> do i also update the commit hash for monero-torrent? currently on 761738fd9f0d60fe655276989648a98ba6ab8188

yes that can, the latest commits are ... "add badge to readme" so not vital but why not

ive named the tag year 2025 haven't i

<redsh4de:matrix.org> yep :D

pretend like it didn't happen pls github.com/monero-project/monero-site/releases/tag/2026-01-11

ofrnxmr for python tbh i would only recommend the convenient "curl things" which is generic so does not require maintenance when a new method is added github.com/normoes/python-monerorpc

The everodd monero-python will deprecate the unmaintained monero-python but not for a while

<redsh4de:matrix.org> something like this for the library page

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XIsuGpiUdRpftgYAspCkPuuC.png (image.png)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Z2M doesnt have cover-art? :(

<syntheticbird> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: NO

wut no monerochan?

<syntheticbird> now cry about it

morono logo is art

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i thought it did but aparently not :/

<redsh4de:matrix.org> maybe i just couldnt find it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe it was fanart

luigi1111: pls update hashes.txt.sig

<rbrunner7> I think Z2M was done in the style of an academic paper, and those don't have "cover art".

kk will be later tonight or tomorrow

ok not urgent anyway

<redsh4de:matrix.org> When you get the chance click through the website@diego:cypherstack.com, all of the routes minus Library and Research Lab are deployed

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Any notes/suggestions no matter how small wanted

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Also if anyone is able to contribute images/graphics - accept monero, knowledge base and monero tools currently have placeholders for images

<diego:cypherstack.com> which of the ones did we like best?

<diego:cypherstack.com> The Isabella ones and not the wispy ones?

<diego:cypherstack.com> send link to the site plz. Sorry.

<redsh4de:matrix.org> From what i inferred out of all Isabella got the most positive attention ye, but there was some discussion regarding potential mascots yday if u scroll up as well

<diego:cypherstack.com> yeah I saw some of it

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @diego:cypherstack.com: beta.monerodevs.org

<diego:cypherstack.com> other people are free to make other art

<diego:cypherstack.com> the art, as long as it fits the theme (of Monero and the website) is pretty drop-in replace

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Yeah just needs to flow well and not look out of place

<redsh4de:matrix.org> But yeah, current state of the page really needs graphics, primarily for “Accept Monero” as it tells a story

<redsh4de:matrix.org> ah right, you wanted to change the hero section on the index page as well?

<diego:cypherstack.com> yes I know that's not typically how things are done with web design. Things are very tightly designed, but we try to be more flexible here

<diego:cypherstack.com> @redsh4de:matrix.org: yes I do

<diego:cypherstack.com> that one's tough