-
XMRPriest[m]
It’s set for 8:30 est
-
RavFX[m]
So you guys gonna ban monero chain bloat tomorrow when I won't be there?
-
RavFX[m]
Please be sure to ban it real well.
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Banhammer it
-
monerobull[m]
Morbinals are sus, has anyone been able to build the modified wallet yet?
-
bit_thanos[m]
it stops compiling at 65%
-
monerobull[m]
You're getting further than me then
-
plowsof11
its broken code / a pysop
-
monerobull[m]
>launch morbinals
-
plowsof11
a premine*
-
monerobull[m]
>start minting stuff
-
monerobull[m]
>release broken software
-
monerobull[m]
>fix it after you're done minting the first 1k nfts
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Software lifecycle
-
plowsof11
>distribute morbinals-working-legit-v1.exe
-
bit_thanos[m]
typical
-
monerobull[m]
Morbs have legit been premined at this point
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We should invite them
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Since were going to acconodate then
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Might as well incorporate it into the core node
-
plowsof11
we needed a fair launch, i am boycotting pre-tx-extra restriction morbinals
-
monerobull[m]
I'd say, if we're already doing nfts, were doing a fair launch and "fork" away from them
-
monerobull[m]
And also call them by their proper name, morbinals
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We should just help them asap
-
monerobull[m]
Yes, mordinals are like bytecoin
-
plowsof11
not going to buy this pre mine trash!
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Atomic swap css proposal
-
monerobull[m]
monerobull[m]: Morbinals will be Monero
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I love having poisoned outputs and excludable decoys
-
plowsof11
the morbinals whitepaper which i think orion_midast is working on
-
monerobull[m]
Ok, can someone make a fixed morbius now (that's the name for morb-wallet)
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Copyright it or someone will take it
-
monerobull[m]
Uhm bad news
-
monerobull[m]
Marvel owns that i think
-
orion_midast[m]
who are they going to sue ?
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Use general funds to buy it off them
-
orion_midast[m]
fuck marvel
-
XMRPriest[m]
^
-
orion_midast[m]
we can just take the name, they cant do shit
-
monerobull[m]
I mean, they could delete our GitHub 😭
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Fork it?
-
orion_midast[m]
we dont need github we need morbius
-
monerobull[m]
DanIsnotthemanBr: What good does that do if the original doesn't compile
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
No fork marvel
-
monerobull[m]
Ah
-
monerobull[m]
So now that we have reached consensus about the future of monero nfts
-
monerobull[m]
We can go to MRL and tell them out requirements
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Merge
-
monerobull[m]
s/out/our/
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Wheres the dev
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Doug
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Bring them here so we can get this workibg
-
monerobull[m]
Anon
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ill find em
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Whats the git?
-
monerobull[m]
moonero
-
bit_thanos[m]
-
monerobull[m]
Chatgpt, analyze this repo and cross-reference with every known monero contributor
-
bit_thanos[m]
messaged them on Twitter, stated that code doesn't compile and suddenly team went to bed LOL you couldn't make this shit up
-
plowsof11
chatgpt abort
-
monerobull[m]
As an ai language model, it is my duty to ABORT
-
monerobull[m]
ok that didn't work
-
plowsof11
until i see actions enabled and GREEN workflow runs - this is a premine and not a fair launch
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
mordinals.org
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Down
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Like a sinking ship
-
monerobull[m]
-
monerobull[m]
They are clearly not a webdev
-
monerobull[m]
Even i somehow managed to get certificates installed somewhat properly
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
Looks like doom3d images
-
monerobull[m]
Its a totally open project!
-
monerobull[m]
You can mint them real cheap!
-
monerobull[m]
Only problem is, the code is broken, whoops
-
monerobull[m]
I like the bought twitter followers
-
monerobull[m]
Do they really think this makes it look like moneropunks had a natural demand during mint
-
fr33_yourself[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "I looked the other day, dont..." <- do you mind if I dm you?
-
bit_thanos[m]
If nothing else, it's good to bring some exposure and another look at tx_extra :)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I dont mind
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Just have few things on the go
-
monerobull[m]
If they are already putting in the effort, they might as well release it publicly for everyone to play with >:(
-
plowsof11
can the official monero twitter account denounce this pre-mine and link people to the fair launch on wownero or something, by monday?
-
fr33_yourself[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "But they dont want to pump the..." <- This motive and circumstances would fit pretty perfectly with what we are observing
-
XMRPriest[m]
I just want the tx extra gone
-
fr33_yourself[m]
I think you will probably get your wish
-
fr33_yourself[m]
The miner is the most interesting thing in Monero at the moment though IMO. It's wild
-
XMRPriest[m]
<DanIsnotthemanBr> "Down" <- Someone’s probably mad and ddoss attacking or even ransom lmao
-
RavFX[m]
Patch the code so every wallet that mint nfts get all there funds burned
-
RavFX[m]
The patch add burning capability, lets use it for good causes
-
XMRPriest[m]
Lmao people will get the burning and NFTs they’ve been promoting recently
-
XMRPriest[m]
Love it hahaha
-
plowsof11
can we at least let it get popular so miners get a pay rise
-
RavFX[m]
First we need to have code that will process and remove the bloat after we ban them
-
fr33_yourself[m]
we should call beerus sama to hakai all people who put jpeg on monero
-
boog900[m]
I managed to build morbius, this is what I did:... (full message at <
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…c6f2dd7911801a59aa28bf233c8a6a56094>)
-
RavFX[m]
So peoples will begin to bloat the blockchain 🤮
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Lfg
-
boog900[m]
Yeah don't use it ; )
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Kill shitnero while they decide his best to accomodate it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
How
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Kid games
-
ofrnxmr[m]
If it can be attacked, it will be
-
fr33_yourself[m]
if Alex from local monero catches wind of this he will be boiling hot mad hahaha. He was already pretty fired up about removing tx extra, now he will be saying I told you so haha
-
ofrnxmr[m]
He's been fighting lolz
-
Alex|LocalMonero
fr33_yourself[m]: If.
-
fr33_yourself[m]
Oh shit he used instant transmission and spawned in
-
fr33_yourself[m]
I agree with you though alex and think your arguments were pretty solid
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Thanks ❤️
-
fr33_yourself[m]
I am a simple creature though, I don't fully grasp the potential ramifications of people using inputs/outputs on chain for steganography
-
fr33_yourself[m]
Basically I couldn't fully understand the negative consequences the other side of the argument was attempting to highlight
-
Alex|LocalMonero
They're main point is that it'll increase scan time due to the additional outputs that will be added to the chain by honest arbitrary data injectors. They seem to think that the equation `malicious_output_spammers + bitcoinization + degraded_fungibility > honest_output_spammers + malicious_output_spammers` holds true.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Im done arguing btw
-
fr33_yourself[m]
Maybe they are right though. I think it's a matter of forecasting the likelihood of both "undesirable" behaviors occuring and then weighing the consequence of the worst case outcomes against each other. I'm not sure I'm smart enough to know which is the lesser of the evils
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Whatever happens happens, yolo
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ya live ya learn
-
Alex|LocalMonero
ofrnxmr[m]: You're done arguing *today*.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
new day - new internet argument
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Oh wait..lolz
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Does it take a hard fork to limit it?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
If so, chain split time rofl
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Rip
-
Alex|LocalMonero
this is how monero dies
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Literally
-
fr33_yourself[m]
Ofrnxmr's point is valid imo. If we rush to hardfork maybe it could cause a problem
-
fr33_yourself[m]
How does Monero die?
-
RavFX[m]
fr33_yourself[m]: today blockchain ~160GB
-
RavFX[m]
tomorrow blockchain ~35TB
-
RavFX[m]
that have to be patched like tonight?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
If you hard fork between tx extra and no tx extra, the consensus is clear
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Users dont want it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
A HUGE exchange doesnt want it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The old chain will fork to no Txextra down one oath, and to limited down another
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And the split haashrate will kill xmr
-
bridgerton[m]
<Bon 💗> I don't want monero to die 😭
-
Alex|LocalMonero
with mordinals 😂
-
bridgerton[m]
<Bon 💗> Noooo
-
ofrnxmr[m]
As I said
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ts_funeral
-
ofrnxmr[m]
* As I said
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Tx_funeral
-
ofrnxmr[m]
"If it aint broke, dont fix it. And when it does break, just put duct tape on it til it completely breaks"
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Whatever though. Monero wants to be the big bad wolf
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And cry foul when getting attacked
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Wants to talk about reliability etc but then support spam
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ok. Lol. Clownshow
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I hear we can elect core members
-
Alex|LocalMonero
bridgerton[m]: Well guess what, mordinals are here to stay because we simply cannot allow a marginal scan time increase under the assumption that outputs aren't limited. And you think there's somewhere you can escape to? Think again! All chains have the equivalent of ordinals, and Monero decided against striving to be free of them because a marginal potential scan time increase was just too much to bear.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
When is the election and who votes
-
politicalweasel[
It's not just scan time, Alex even if you disagree there are more arguments than that and you know it. I encourage everyone to see the extensive discussions going on in #monero-research-lab:monero.social
-
politicalweasel[
over the past few days
-
politicalweasel[
and maybe weeks
-
politicalweasel[
idk
-
Alex|LocalMonero
politicalweasel[: I'm just having some fun, this isn't a serious discussion room.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
It's hard to keep being all serious when you discuss the same thing for months
-
politicalweasel[
well yeah but not everyone knows the full extent of the problem and realizes that
-
fr33_yourself[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "And the split haashrate will..." <- why would the hashrate be split though🤨
-
plowsof11
we've been minting pdf's / putting b-movie on the blockchain for ages
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Because I wouldnt run the shit daemon
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Im nit storing your nfts, sorry
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Oh, can we make a bee movie mordinal?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Go use wownero
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Alex|LocalMonero: Soon
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Is anyone running mordinal?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
45mins
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Nice
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Dw, ill try to limit to 256bytes
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its not an attack. Its just my premine
-
fr33_yourself[m]
<RavFX[m]> "that have to be patched like..." <- so is it time to sell now? haha
-
XMRPriest[m]
So this can never be fixed ????
-
fr33_yourself[m]
> <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> today blockchain ~160GB
-
fr33_yourself[m]
> tomorrow blockchain ~35TB
-
fr33_yourself[m]
This could actually happen?
-
XMRPriest[m]
Even in the next upgrade with Sepharis
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Full membership proofs and / or seraphis allow Txextra to be used without much issue
-
politicalweasel[
no, the blockchain could not expand that quickly
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But thats 2*n years away
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Been 2 years away for 2 years or so
-
ofrnxmr[m]
(Koe has worked his ass off non stop with little help if any)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not to discredit anyone who has helped.. of course
-
fr33_yourself[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: I understand this. I mean who would run the stupid old chain with tx_extra?
-
RavFX[m]
fr33_yourself[m]: Yeah, idiot wanting nfts on monero and attacker spaming shit on the chain at minimum fee
-
fr33_yourself[m]
oof
-
fr33_yourself[m]
how did we get blindsided like this
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Guys I just realized something. If tx_extra is removed then all the NFTs that we inscribe now, prior to tx_extra removal, will be x1000 more valuable later if Monero becomes the dominant currency. (this is not financial advice)
-
fr33_yourself[m]
haven't ordinals been on btc for like a month? lol
-
RavFX[m]
is there is limit of size for that scam or people can patch the wallet and put /dev/random into morbinal?
-
Alex|LocalMonero
We have a limited time window to stuff as many NFTs as we can before tx_extra is removed
-
fr33_yourself[m]
nice one alex. All the proof of stake boys are actively placing bids on those nfts right now
-
Alex|LocalMonero
this is our one shot to be part of eternity, ladies and gentlemen
-
RavFX[m]
s/random/urandom/
-
Alex|LocalMonero
what we inscribe now will make any owner a moneromillionaire (not financial advice)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
fr33_yourself[m]: Over a yeqr
-
plowsof11
dont be fooled by alex - im holding out for the chained tx nfts after tx_extra is limited
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ive seen the spam forever. I showed you I think
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Didnt know it was ordinals, thought it was just spam.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Those chained ones will be fun, but really are a waste of time
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Easier to do on insert chain here
-
plowsof11
when the chained tx nfts get popular with normies, time to sell and invest in the clsag coin nfts
-
Alex|LocalMonero
plowsof11: Ha! Nothing will ever match the value of tx_extra mordinals. They'll be like picassos. Cope
-
Alex|LocalMonero
April fools is coming up, I think localmordinals.com is a free domain...
-
fr33_yourself[m]
alex, what is your proposed solution the mordinal problem
-
fr33_yourself[m]
what is the best way to go about eliminating tx extra
-
fr33_yourself[m]
specifically
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Name name is Alex and I want nfts
-
Alex|LocalMonero
fr33_yourself[m]: I'd love to answer but I'm a bit tired to talk about itright now, ask me tomorrow 😁
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Dont you dare try to stop us now
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Gotta get the site and app prepared for the mordinals market section on LocalMonero
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Also gotta make a mordinal of LocalMonero Lucy
-
Alex|LocalMonero
aka localmonero-chan
-
fr33_yourself[m]
anime waifu will sell big bags of monero to the nft boys
-
fr33_yourself[m]
will sell for big bags of monero
-
RavFX[m]
considering 99% of the nft went -99% in value
-
fr33_yourself[m]
I know there has been controversy in the ccs surrounding videos lately. One type of video that's taking off in popularity and is pretty entertaining IMO are the ai chat voice fakes of the US presidents. Someone could make a video using that tool of the presidents debating monero and if it was entertaining enough it might get a lot of views
-
fr33_yourself[m]
the tier lists they make using the ai generated president voices are pretty funny imo, maybe monero could jump on the new meme format
-
XMRPriest[m]
Where are those videos
-
XMRPriest[m]
Want to watch them haha
-
Alex|LocalMonero
<fr33_yourself[m]> "the tier lists they make using..." <- Monero has dynamic block size so we can expand the block to fit the videos as mordinals
-
plowsof11
we already have an ai voiced ccs animated video
-
plowsof11
good suggestion
-
fr33_yourself[m]
XMRPriest[m]: youtube
-
fr33_yourself[m]
plowsof11: yes, but it will be boring if the presidents aren
-
fr33_yourself[m]
t the orators
-
fr33_yourself[m]
guys i have a serious question. Why does Monero need a decentralized exchange for any other crypto-currency? I don't understand this use-case
-
fr33_yourself[m]
If there is a way to move from a green piece of government paper to Monero and back, then that's all that matters. I don't see why anyone will use something like Serai when Local Monero and BISQ already exist
-
fr33_yourself[m]
Why would someone who has another crypto-currency want to swap into Monero. Wouldn't they just go straight from fiat to Monero via Local Monero or use BTC as intermediary liquidity on BISQ?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ltc*
-
ofrnxmr[m]
BTC is too dirty
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Free
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its a bit of 6 in one hand and half dozen in the other
-
fr33_yourself[m]
not sure what you mean ofrnxmr
-
ofrnxmr[m]
No Dex / atomic swap = you have to trust someone, ALWAYS
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But Dex / atomic swap = useless imo
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nothing to swap to that needs a Dex. Token swaps are for eth on eth
-
fr33_yourself[m]
think of all the people Monero can onboard if people offer local trades via local monero vs. serai.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They even have wrapped xmr I think?
-
fr33_yourself[m]
I guess you are right, I just don't see why Serai is necessary
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The cause of the problem is, of course, the governments
-
fr33_yourself[m]
green pieces of paper are the most saleable currency. So if you can easily convert from Monero to green pieces of paper in your local area then you don't really need much of anything else
-
fr33_yourself[m]
if you have access to green pieces of paper and Monero, I don't see the point of having liquidity for other chains or this that and the other
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I like the idea of transparant chains as verifiable storage for banks
-
fr33_yourself[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: I'm not sure I follow you here. What use could a transparent chain have?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Banks say they have 40b, but really, they dont
-
ofrnxmr[m]
It would be nice to know when a bank starts fucking around on a Saturday before dumping their stock on monday
-
fr33_yourself[m]
Why would we need banks in a post crypto adoption future?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Or when ftx etc is siphoning your money
-
ofrnxmr[m]
fr33_yourself[m]: For the same reason you do now
-
fr33_yourself[m]
to send money to people internationally? that's what crypto is for
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Traditional banks, perhaps not
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But banks nonetheless
-
fr33_yourself[m]
self-custody and high portability of crypto kills bank
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Employers arent going to pay your unverified wallet address
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They'll pay your kyc'd bank account
-
fr33_yourself[m]
cex is bank for the simpleton owner of doge or bitcorn who thinks he is going to get rich or is sticking it to the man
-
fr33_yourself[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: why not
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Because change is hard unless you want to massacre people
-
ofrnxmr[m]
In the literal sense ie genocide
-
fr33_yourself[m]
that is not a sound explanation
-
ofrnxmr[m]
It isnt a full one, but its sound
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And like Alex said
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Im tired
-
fr33_yourself[m]
If i have an employee and he sends me his receiving address, I will send to him as long as my wallet software shows the same address as the message. If our communications are secure, then there can be no error on my side only on his.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Answering lazily so I should stop lol
-
ofrnxmr[m]
(Many)employers dont pay cash for the same reason
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And if employer paid your wallet directly
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They would be using a bank themselves
-
fr33_yourself[m]
😥you didn't respond to my dm's
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Large employers ^ Not their own wallet
-
ofrnxmr[m]
fr33_yourself[m]: I have a lot of chats going 😭 sorry
-
bridgerton[m]
<Bon 💗> What made me switch from btc to monero was the Anonymous, private, and untraceable aspect of monero in itself. The ability to not be able to be traced by irs or question what i do with my money which it ain't their business. That is what made me switch to Bitcoin to monero because i don't want anyone questioning what i do with my money because its annoying. Love monero
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ill get back to everyone ❤️
-
bridgerton[m]
s/to/from/
-
fr33_yourself[m]
it's ok, but one day i'd like to get to know a bit more about you. You seem like a fairly interesting person
-
fr33_yourself[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: why not just receive funds to a dedicated business revenue wallet, then pay employees out of this wallet directly to their personal wallets?
-
rooter0_
Using xmrig I'm getting zero benefit from an AMD RX6600 GPU. Hashrate is the same as with CPUs only. I've set the .json file to use CPU & GPU.
-
politicalweasel[
We should have an immediate soft fork or at the very least a policy change, which restricts tx_extra to 576 bytes. Further restrictions can and should come later, but for now that will at least somewhat control the mord spam and prevent large jpegs, especially before someone posts gore or whatever. I'm not aware of anyone who is arguing for a limit higher than 576, so this shouldn't be incredibly controversial.
-
politicalweasel[
I say 576 because legitimate 16-out transactions can use up to 547 bytes from what I've found, due to subaddress overhead, and payment ids, and the "signal" bytes in tx_extra. In other words this will NOT affect normal users. Luckily 576 happens to also be a little below what most mordinals are, so it will filter many if not most.
-
politicalweasel[
Unless we have a good reason to hard fork within a month or two, in which case we'll include it there, but I don't think we do.
-
politicalweasel[
Anyone agree?
-
Alex|LocalMonero
> <@politicalweasel:matrix.org> We should have an immediate soft fork or at the very least a policy change, which restricts tx_extra to 576 bytes. Further restrictions can and should come later, but for now that will at least somewhat control the mord spam and prevent large jpegs, especially before someone... (full message at <
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…fcf3ffe3f4c6bbe77b5d702ebac6e101b4e>)
-
xmrfn[m]
-
politicalweasel[
Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk: I'll take that as a yes for your support 👍️
-
xmrfn[m]
A low-risk soft fork limiting tx_extra is a step in the right direction. Monero is all about continuous improvement, yo.
-
politicalweasel[
that's 2-0 in favor, and 20 minutes is definitely plenty of time, so let's do this 😎
-
monerobull[m]
-
bit_thanos[m]
morbinal chan
-
rbrunner
Quite ... morbid? (That's mean, I know, but fit to that mordinals nonsense)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<Alex|LocalMonero> "You're done arguing *today*." <- :D
-
Siren[m]
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Hahaha
-
XMRPriest[m]
Damn straight
-
orion_midast[m]
good morning friends
-
ceetee[m]
-
ceetee[m]
anarkiocrypto: This looks super cool and promising. I know the MVP is still some time in the future, but I'd advocate for some kind of fee, so the site hosting and maintance can be paid for
-
ceetee[m]
Do you have a donation address yet?
-
anarkiocrypto[m]
Most of the backend is done... Should only take around 6-12 work hours until the beta version is released.
-
anarkiocrypto[m]
The VPS is $10/month and paid until May 15. No technical way to add a fee as it's non-custodial and donations are sent directly to the user's address (and a "symbolic" listing fee would be prohibitive, especially for medical/housing/charity fundraisers and for people who can't easily buy Monero where they live, e.g. low cash in person/by mail liquidity).
-
anarkiocrypto[m]
Will try to launch it + release the code before March 31 (my living situation will probably be less stable in April, so I want to do it before then).
-
anarkiocrypto[m]
As an alternative, Zombie Master's XMRStarter is already live and working:
xmrstarter.com
-
ceetee[m]
alright, no rush, I don't have an immediate need but when I see cool projects I always reach out to their creators <3
-
-
XMRPriest[m]
Anyone look at their pull requests ?
-
XMRPriest[m]
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Havent been submiteed
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They are must reading logs and posting our convo lolol
-
ofrnxmr[m]
"They" discovered
-
plowsof11
-
XMRPriest[m]
Lol they be lying or still prepping the request
-
sech1
This is just huge trolling
-
sech1
caused by tx_extra discussions
-
XMRPriest[m]
But would removing these ordinals from the decoy set be a decent solution ?
-
sech1
No
-
ceetee[m]
>he addition of ordinals does not detract from Monero's core mission of providing a private and fungible digital cash system
-
ceetee[m]
lmao. You can't add non cash, and then claim it doesn't distract from the cash mission
-
sech1
because decoy selection is not part of consensus, so all old wallets will keep selecting them
-
XMRPriest[m]
Rip 🥲
-
XMRPriest[m]
I just want a solution to mitigate the damages hahaha but so does everyone hahaha
-
sech1
I'd say merge
monero-project/monero #8733 and make a point release ASAP
-
sech1
and remove tx_extra completely in the next hardfork
-
XMRPriest[m]
My question is how do we come to a full consensus on the tx extra problem and make a decision to move forward ?
-
XMRPriest[m]
How has contentious problems been solved in the past ? Seems like there are 3 camps on the problem and how do we come together
-
ofrnxmr[m]
As Koe and Alex said - central planning
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Having nobody capable of making decisions is pretty bad project management
-
XMRPriest[m]
Lmao
-
XMRPriest[m]
Not wrong, what’s their opinion on the matter ?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And I dont mean dictatorships
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Same as how you have a coordinator for ccs, with no coordinator, you just randomly pick who hosts meetings?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nobody has any responsibility?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We can spin tired for 2 years because its nobodies fault?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Tires*
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I 100% agree with sech
-
XMRPriest[m]
I meant by koe and Alex even tho based off alexs responses yesterday seemed he was for removing tx extra
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Why? Not simply because I agree with his choice, but because making a decision isnt something everybody is capable of
-
Rucknium[m]
One of the Core Team's only responsibilities is to act as mediators:
getmonero.org/community/workgroups
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Alex is. And he wants someone to end the filibuster and DO SOMETHINF
-
XMRPriest[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: I’m on the same page, limit and remove but how do we prevent other iterations of ordinals that can do more damage ? sech1
-
ofrnxmr[m]
More damage?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
90% of tx having tx extra ordinals = fuck your decoys.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Whether its steg or not, those tx are fingerprintable
-
sech1
if tx_extra is limited or removed, there's not much space in a transaction you can use
-
sech1
certainly not enough for JPGs
-
monerobull[m]
I think smol, encrypted tx_extra is the best compromise we have
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Keyword compromise
-
ceetee[m]
stego is discourage by cost and by reducing the privacy of the sender
-
Rucknium[m]
This method of provably transferring Mordinals can probably be ended by decoy selection algorithm enforcement, which has been proposed in the past. But they could prove transfer by another way using cryptography
-
monerobull[m]
Scriptless script nfts
-
Rucknium[m]
-
sech1
I think that any such event (like Mordinals) just exposes one of Monero's weaknesses in terms of privace, and it must be fixed
-
sech1
by dealing with tx_extra in this case
-
sech1
and probably enforcing decoy selection
-
ofrnxmr[m]
^ also why I keep references exchanges who use preselected or non standard decoys
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Keep referencing *
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Because Txextra isnt a Txextra problem
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its a cascading issue
-
rbrunner
From the linked tweet: Nice people, these m0rdinals, first they bring those beautiful NFTs to the blockchain, and now they even want to help with privacy.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Are they bad actors? No
-
XMRPriest[m]
SBF was a nice person
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They are using monero how it is designed
-
sech1
they are retarded actors
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Who are we to restrict their use of Txextra
-
sech1
or just trolls
-
ceetee[m]
they are pentesters for the network
-
XMRPriest[m]
Use wow if they want to test different features lmao
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They arent pentesters. Just doing what its designed to do
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Arb data storage with no limits
-
rbrunner
The transaction flood in mid 2021 was about worth 200,000 of those mordinals:
old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11…d_45_monero_blockchain_gets/jcjpugu
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Why would they NOT use it.
-
rbrunner
*That* was a stresstest. That now is only children playing.
-
sech1
Stresstest? You haven't seen a real stresstest yet
-
ofrnxmr[m]
^^^^^^^
-
rbrunner
Ah, yes, I forgot. They sky must fall, otherwise we don't even leave bed.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Must it?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Is that the only way monero will evolve, is by dying first?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
(Ie, so... we should press the button then?)
-
sech1
A real stresstest would be at least 100 tx/second sustained for a few weeks
-
sech1
10M transactions/day
-
sech1
THAT would be a stresstest
-
rbrunner
Alright, alright. Of course that would be a technical stresstest. Just pretty hard to happen on mainnet, realistically, because expensive.
-
sech1
total tx fee per block decreases as soon as you hit 300 KB
-
sech1
so not really expensive
-
sech1
just spam lowest fee transactions to keep the blocks growing
-
sech1
I mean, making a full block at 300 KB/block is more expensive than making a full block at 20 MB/block
-
rbrunner
One asks me whether I want Monero to die first because I move, and the other wants to sell me 100 txs/second on mainnet as somewhat realistic scenario. Sigh.
-
sech1
this is how fee algorithm works
-
rbrunner
*before I move
-
rbrunner
Yeah, that's how level-headed discussions work.
-
sech1
you need only 0.006 XMR per block in fees, 4.32 XMR/day to sustain full blocks and grow them little by little
-
rbrunner
At least we are in a channel where we won't immediately get kicked. Hopefully.
-
sech1
as soon as the start growing, this 4.32 XMR/day starts decreasing
-
sech1
*they start
-
rbrunner
Does anybody know why the m0rdinals people do not yet announce on Reddit? Themselves?
-
sech1
100 tx/s will mean 20 MB blocks with much less than 4.32 XMR/day to run it
-
rbrunner
I mean, the number of mordinals that get published is really pittyful. They need to enhance their marketing.
-
sech1
I'm all for if they start promoting Monero everywhere
-
rbrunner
:)
-
ceetee[m]
Its almost if they are not looking for profit 🤔
-
germankr[m]
Hi everyone ✌🏻✌🏻
-
sech1
maybe this is how we reach 100 tx/s :P
-
rbrunner
Maybe not with a CLI wallet that you have to self-compile. Not yet very user-friendly.
-
germankr[m]
Guys, what do you think the future of the Monero is?... (full message at <
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…37a62dccef545c92c49f00d613bc248131c>)
-
Siren[m]
Zcash isn't a copy of Monero
-
sech1
The future of Monero is de-facto internet cash
-
sech1
it will be everywhere online, and will sprinkle into offline stores too
-
germankr[m]
Siren[m]: That's why I put it in “quotes”, because their ideas are essentially the same, but the Monero is the ancestor and the first
-
Siren[m]
Their ideas or how they work aren't the same either
-
Siren[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "Arb data storage with no limits..." <- What if I store few GB in there? People will have fun syncing that?
-
plowsof11
the tx spam attack added x GB for x usd (numbers pending, please hold)
-
Siren[m]
I'd need to pay more fees for a tx like this?
-
Siren[m]
Or is there really nothing to prevent this from happening?
-
plowsof11
there is a cap on the data per 1 tx
-
Siren[m]
How big?
-
plowsof11
max number of inputs is one hundread and for..ty? six?
-
plowsof11
outputs*
-
plowsof11
please hold
-
hengrunlu[m]
Dear friends, I would like to ask that, as a beginner, I want to learn about the project code structure and function of Monero coin. Are there any articles or books about the Monero source code?
-
sech1
-
hanser[m]
Very Thanks!
-
plowsof11
Siren: im looking here for those details
reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/pvm634…inting_a_flood_forensic_statistical ( ofrnxmr the traitor who shall not be named noticed the flood of tx first !)
-
plowsof11
see Rucknium s comment in that reddit post. under "How many transactions did the source generate, and how much did that cost?.."
-
plowsof11
$1.40 per MB^
-
Stnby[m]
Damn we could easily put our git repo in the tx_extra
-
heinrich[m]
XMR/BTC looking very bad again, bois
-
heinrich[m]
:'(
-
plowsof11
heintich -> #monero-markets:monero.social
-
rooter0_
-
monerobull[m]
you want to mine xmr with gpu? why :P
-
rooter0_
Just because I ave it and it's not doing anything else.
-
rooter0_
-
rbrunner
That's a good way to become poorer. The price for the electricity your GPU will need to mine may be factors higher than what value you get in XMR.
-
rooter0_
About 72 watts max.
-
rooter0_
Only have one.
-
rbrunner
"What if I store few GB in there? People will have fun syncing that?" I love scare tactics. They always lead to good decisions.
-
rooter0_
nvtop shows it's being used zero, and I can't see any reason why this would be.
-
rbrunner
Siren[m]: Please do go ahead. The sooner we know a danger, a *real* one, the better. We did react to that flood attack, with higher fees.
-
rbrunner
If they are still too high, we must find that out. You could help. Let the gigabytes flow.
-
rbrunner
Er, too low of course :)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rbrunner: I dont think scare tactics
-
ofrnxmr[m]
More like, "is this.. an invitation to render the network unusable?"
-
rbrunner
Whatever. I really mean it. Please render the network unusable. If it is so easy that some hobbyist can do that, we *have* to know, and must react.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Id be a bad actor if I did that, as some already know the attack is more than possible
-
rbrunner
Hypotheticals do not count. Only what really happens counts. "What if "... yeah, if pigs could fly. They can't, and that's it.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
There are no hypotheticals
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Pigs fly on monero 👍
-
rbrunner
You seem to have some sort of disconnect with the real world. In the real world, there are almost no attacks on the network. That's a fact.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Maybe you dont pay attention
-
rbrunner
We can quarrel about the reasons why not, but there are really almost no attacks.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
There are plenty
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And tests being conducted as well
-
rbrunner
Of course. The network runs almost like clockwork, all the time, and you see constant attacks. Funny.
-
rbrunner
And that's of course no scare tactic at all, thankfully.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
🥲
-
Siren[m]
<rbrunner> "Siren: Please do go ahead. The..." <- What scare tactics? Just fuck off and deprecate tx_extra if that's anyhow possible
-
ofrnxmr[m]
If it was a scare tactic, id have said in in public months ago
-
Siren[m]
I simply asked if that was possible
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Instead of contacting those involved regarding a fix
-
rbrunner
Asked about what is possible?
-
cryptogrampy[m]
WOW I CANT STOP MINTING
-
rbrunner
Maybe I did not see what statement of ofrnxmr you answered to, being on IRC
-
monerobull[m]
Grampy were turning into massive nft degens
-
cryptogrampy[m]
I'm going to need to find that Monero-accepting psychologist service to help with my addiction
-
rbrunner
"Just fuck off" Seems I hit a nerve
-
RavFX[m]
Is there is a way to run my node into prune tx_extra mode?
-
Siren[m]
rbrunner: I've hit your nerve few months back by calling you a boomer
-
rbrunner
Ah, yes, now I remember.
-
Siren[m]
Now you won't shut up
-
rbrunner
Ah, you mean I am still sour from that, and petty?
-
Siren[m]
Oh wait that wasn't even you mentioned in the boomer message, you just assumed it was yourself
-
rbrunner
Anyway, I have not yet given up hope that the tx_extra story will reach some consensus soon, and after that I may fuck off alright
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Sech made the right csll
-
rbrunner
Give a gist
-
ofrnxmr[m]
> I'd say merge
monero-project/monero #8733 and make a point release ASAP
-
ofrnxmr[m]
> and remove tx_extra completely in the next hardfork
-
rbrunner
It's "right" from a certain point on the opinion spectrum
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And this is not his words, but mine:
-
ofrnxmr[m]
then push forward with full membership proofs / seraphis etc to get it done correctly
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its right from the point of attack vectors
-
rbrunner
Got that, yeah, you mentioned a similar opinion yesterday
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Koe has already done the dirty work in Seraphis and moved things to their appropriate fields
-
rbrunner
Yes, it's ready to drop there. Correct.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Instead of just stuffing everything in an unlimited junk drawer
-
rbrunner
It's a bit long until Seraphis, but yeah.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Seraphis moves faster if kaya needs it 🤫
-
rooter0_
There's still a separate xmrig-amd?!
-
rbrunner
Well, you can't conjure up code by applying magic. Not even kaya.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
No ^ its old
-
ofrnxmr[m]
@rooter
-
rbrunner
Especially running code.
-
rooter0_
Are AMD GPUs shut out of xmrig?
-
rooter0_
It's suing mine zero
-
rooter0_
using
-
ofrnxmr[m]
You need to put in the location of the library in the xmrig config
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Seraphis is 2+n years away.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We could do it in far less time with proper manpower and management.
-
rbrunner
"management" somehow rings a bell.
-
rbrunner
Say, a question, an honest one, I am really curious, and maybe something good might come out of it, who knows
-
rbrunner
We saw 2 days ago that we have UkoeHB, kayabanerve, ArticMine, moneromooo, and 2 or 3 other respected people in the "keep" camp, at least right now
-
rbrunner
Do you see it as probable that you will be able to sway all those?
-
rooter0_
ofrnxmr[m]: There doesn't seem to be a switch to set lib path:
xmrig.com/docs/miner/config/opencl
-
rbrunner
jtgrassie, yesterday
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rooter0_: In config file
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Opencl section "loader": field
-
rooter0_
O
-
xmrfn[m]
I think at least several of those named will look at the monordinals situation and realize we need to stop this fuckery sooner rather than later. Especially the ones I usually agree with :)
-
xmrfn[m]
* rbrunner: I think
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rbrunner: sorry, real busy Friday
-
rbrunner
Fair enough. It may be a good idea to check in, say, 2 weeks again whether those remain in the "keep" camp.
-
Siren[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "Sech made the right csll" <- Totally agree with sech btw
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Dont want to keep replying with short / quick statements
-
rbrunner
Understood.
-
xmrfn[m]
Limit the size ASAP seems obvious. Put out the creeping non-fungibility fire. Then assess the appropriate next step, be it keeping the tx_extra size cap or excising the cancer completely.
-
RavFX[m]
I did shutdown all my nodes yesterday.
-
RavFX[m]
They will stay off until the exploit is fixed
-
xfedex[m]
Wownero has already opted for limiting the size, and hardfork is on April 1st (5th birthday). I think Monero should do this ASAP too.
-
rbrunner
"The exploit"
-
xmrfn[m]
Damn you're gonna make me want to buy more WOW with sexy talk like that
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And wow is nft friendly ♥️
-
rbrunner
Wownero is a tad smaller in almost everything. 3 people around a campfire can quickly decide almost everything.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
No
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nothing at wow is quick
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And decisions? Ha.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Wow is just WOW. Its perfect.
-
rbrunner
Alright.
-
xmrfn[m]
(Also I hope nobody uses wow for transactions that would be Very Bad if public)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
(I know what youre saying tho :p I jest. )
-
rbrunner
" Put out the creeping non-fungibility fire" I should start a collection with such cool formulations.
-
xmrfn[m]
rbrunner: LOL, I say the same thing about the clever turns of phrase in your short stories
-
rbrunner
Gee, thanks.
-
kayabanerve[m]
Was I pinged? If so, sorry, but I don't see where
-
xmrfn[m]
RavFX: what exploit? Surely you're not talking about monordinals, they don't harm your node
-
rooter0_
In xmrig .json under "opencl": "loader": "/opt/rocm-5.4.0/lib/", -- but * OPENCL disabled (failed to load OpenCL runtime)
-
kayabanerve[m]
No ones against that relay rule PR. Should be merged asap
-
rbrunner
Not a true ping, I just made a list of people in the "keep tx_extra" camp :(
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I said kaya too (talking shit behind your back 🔪) haha
-
Rucknium[m]
kayabanerve: Would relay rules really stop those tx from being mined? Without a hardfork, changes to relay rules are a sieve.
-
kayabanerve[m]
<rbrunner> "Well, you can't conjure up..." <- rbrunner: My sacrificed goats disagree
-
Rucknium[m]
Basically all miners would have to use the new node version
-
kayabanerve[m]
Found my ping. I advocate for keep, up to 255 bytes per TX. Optional, var length.
-
xmrfn[m]
Sorry, there is no Royal Road to working code. Not even LLMs make it easy. Coding and debugging is work
-
Rucknium[m]
At the August hark fork, about half of all nodes failed to remember to upgrade
-
kayabanerve[m]
Afaict, any tx using extra is breaking privacy standards and I don't care to have everyone do it for the 0.1℅
-
kayabanerve[m]
If a tx wants to use extra without breaking privacy, it can do decoy selection steg.
-
kayabanerve[m]
Rucknium: You'd need a cooperating mining pool
-
kayabanerve[m]
Or miner
-
Rucknium[m]
You would need nearly all of them
-
xmrfn[m]
> for the 0.1%
-
xmrfn[m]
Problem is, with NFT fans, trolls, & bots, it's not going to be 0.1% for long
-
RavFX[m]
Can they encrypt tx_extra?
-
RavFX[m]
At least it will make it useless for nft spamming
-
sgp[m]
kayabanerve[m]: Likewise, I'm not for removing 100%. There should be an ability to add a small string.
monero-project/monero #8733#pullrequestreview-1346048999
-
kayabanerve[m]
So they won't be banned but they'll be difficult and require renting hash power. That's a very increased fee for doing it
-
kayabanerve[m]
Regardless of long term goals, immediately, no one is against the relay rule PR. I want to be clear on that and not conflate them.
-
Rucknium[m]
kayabanerve: I am skeptical of relay rule
-
sgp[m]
kayabanerve[m]: Exactly, everyone is in agreement for 8733, let's merge and release that
-
Rucknium[m]
Without a hard fork
-
sgp[m]
Rucknium[m]: Are there any real downsides?
-
Rucknium[m]
I just said it
-
Rucknium[m]
It's a sieve
-
rbrunner
Well, if not more is to have at short notice, why not take the sieve?
-
xmrfn[m]
Wallet (client) has to encrypt. Wallet could always simply choose to not encrypt.
-
Rucknium[m]
How is it supposed to stop txs from propagating and reaching un-updated miners?
-
rbrunner
Still a minimum of resistance. And also a statement, if you like.
-
kayabanerve[m]
Rucknium: Your doubting of impact is distinct from the belief of harm.
-
kayabanerve[m]
Eh. Doesn't it become an effective eclipse attack?
-
kayabanerve[m]
If unupdated nodes are only connected to updated ones...
-
sgp[m]
I agree a hardfork is what's truly needed, but I would rather take this gain today and not force an emergency hardfork
-
kayabanerve[m]
But sure, emphasis must be placed on updating.
-
anotherme
hey, noob here. I installed the node on linux and synced to top
-
anotherme
How do I know if I am actually mining?
-
kayabanerve[m]
Or a soft fork, which I don't believe monero has prior done and the reasons for that may be why it's not worth considering now
-
rbrunner
I add "sgp" to my list of "respected Monero people you would have to sway before total removal of tx_extra"
-
ofrnxmr[m]
anotherme: The node doesnt mind BT default
-
xfedex[m]
anotherme: mining_status
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Type help for all commands
-
sgp[m]
rbrunner: Yeah, I agree with kayaba on 255 ideally
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rbrunner: Mhm
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Im keeping track
-
rbrunner
Oh?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Thanks though
-
sgp[m]
fwiw, I'm somewhat glad someone did this Mordinals thing because it forces us to finally do something. Minor blessing
-
rbrunner
Yes. If they don't properly announce on Reddit soon I may be tempted to do it for them
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Lol
-
ofrnxmr[m]
"Someone"
-
xmrfn[m]
Major blessing that they didn't start by flooding tens of thousands of dick pics (or worse) onto the chain. They gave a nice slow easy wake-up call
-
sgp[m]
Yeah this could have been far worse
-
ofrnxmr[m]
It can be if rbrunner keeps askign for it to be
-
cryptogrampy[m]
CAN YOU ALL KEEP DOWN I JUST MINTED THE LAST MONKEY JPEG PUNK
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Pigs fly
-
xfedex[m]
This will be far worse if no action is taken soon
-
sgp[m]
"Yuga Labs, Facebook, and the NSA present this new Monero NFT collection" etc
-
anotherme
xfedex: Error: Unknown command 'mining_status', try 'help' (in monero-wallet-cli)
-
rbrunner
Not sure. The reality doesn't always abide to your wishes.
-
xfedex[m]
anotherme: You need to run this in monerod, not in monero-wallet-cli
-
anotherme
oh
-
xfedex[m]
Mining is disabled by default anyway
-
anotherme
I redirected the output to a file so I am not interactive
-
anotherme
I guess monerod contains the command to actually start mining too
-
xfedex[m]
unless you used the start_mining command in monerod (or you are mining using xmrig) then you aren't mining
-
rbrunner
That's the thing. Every second now an 100 km asteriod could wipe us all out. Every freaking second. Except that it does not happen.
-
sgp[m]
rbrunner: sounds like scope creep lol
-
rbrunner
:)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Thats a terrible analogy based on pure chance
-
bobthemason[m]
A Coup in Paradise
-
rbrunner
Well, is it? "Every second now somebody can start to flood us" "Every second now somebody can start to post 1000's of dick picks" Yeah, conditional.
-
-
bobthemason[m]
It was the early 1990s. All alphabet agencies lived harmoniously in the... (full message at <
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…7c88caaba42488e657659e18c6421486b75>)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not based on "I control an asteroid and im not throwing it and advocating to nit let a bad actor be in my shoes"
-
-
bobthemason[m]
Satoshi Nakamoto had (S. N. for short, IYKWIM) created a system that... (full message at <
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…9fe589e0afa483299f628d08ae7f618fc51>)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Cleanup sgp:
-
RavFX[m]
I wonder how much it will cost in fee to post linux ISO images
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ty 🙏 💢
-
Siren[m]
RavFX[m]: Exactly what I had in mind lol
-
Rucknium[m]
RavFX: Something like that already happened on LTC
-
cryptogrampy[m]
> Running TempleOS on monero
-
rbrunner
Sigh. It's clear already: Not much.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I wonder his big we can make the blocks :)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
How*
-
RavFX[m]
We can test that dynamic block size algo :D
-
rbrunner
Please do. I repeat myself. We have to know if it's really easy to pull off.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
CCS?
-
rbrunner
Why not.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But I want fiat
-
sgp[m]
transactions are way too cheap, and there's a political element to this since AM really wants cheap transactions
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nit going to get paid in useless money after burning the house down
-
rbrunner
AM?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Artic
-
rbrunner
Ah, ok.
-
RavFX[m]
I assume one could patch the wallet to use very low fee and it will get mined eventually thanks to dynamic block size.
-
RavFX[m]
So it could be possible to post 43GB verifications.io leaks for like 1$ right
-
rbrunner
A bit unfortunate.
-
Rucknium[m]
petsymposium.org/popets/2022/popets-2022-0011.php "We present results from UWeb experiments with writing 268.21 MB of data into the live Litecoin blockchain, including 4.5 months of live-feed BBC articles, and 41 censorship resistant tools. The max-rate writing throughput (183 KB/s) and blockchain utilization (88%) exceed those of state-of-the-art solutions by 2-3 orders of magnitude and broke Litecoin’s record of the daily
-
Rucknium[m]
average block size."
-
sgp[m]
dynamic blocksize is way too forgiving
-
RavFX[m]
Dynamic blocksize are totally fine assuming we don't leave way to abuse the thing
-
sgp[m]
I'm saying the current implementation is too forgiving
-
rbrunner
Tx several magnitudes too low, and dynamic blocksize maybe allowing to store Linux ISO files. And we worry about tx_extra if true?
-
sgp[m]
even if you spam normal txs without txextra
-
rbrunner
*Tx fees
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Txextra makes it easier to pull
-
rooter0_
OPENCL disabled (failed to load OpenCL runtime)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I can attack the network without Txextra though
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The dynamic blocks*
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Rekt.news
-
RavFX[m]
Just take more tx right
-
Rucknium[m]
RavFX: tx below the minimum fee will be rejected by monerod. So the txs will not reach miners
-
RavFX[m]
posting ISO is just a really nice fast and easy shortcut
-
rbrunner
I don't think those things are really true, but again, if they are, somebody prove that ASAP please, so we can start to fix
-
Rucknium[m]
The problem with fee policy on a global network is that one person's pittance is another person's hourly wage
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Fixes have started
-
sgp[m]
Rucknium[m]: this is the justification for 8733 :)
-
Rucknium[m]
Yes but not everyone updates. We could get to maybe half updating without a hard fork
-
sgp[m]
Good I'll take half
-
Rucknium[m]
I don't know why this is hard to understand apparently
-
sgp[m]
I'm not saying it's hard to understand. I understand you just fine :)
-
sgp[m]
I'm just saying I'll take the half over nothing
-
rbrunner
and I wouldn't underestimate the psychological effect, to show that we are able to act
-
Rucknium[m]
txs propagate through a gossip network. Those txs will still arrive at un-updated miners
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Before that, we need to fix the autouodater haha
-
sgp[m]
all that matters really is if the pools update
-
sgp[m]
let's at least given them the option
-
Rucknium[m]
sgp: I agree
-
RavFX[m]
Yeah, that's a problem, I mean, if only half update, spam tx will stay in mempool and get mined a few minutes later anyway right? So it won't change a thing
-
ofrnxmr[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: It downloads a zip and leaves the rest up to the user
-
Rucknium[m]
But it must be almost every pool
-
Rucknium[m]
RavFX understands me :)
-
xfedex[m]
I agree with sgp. We should block relaying as fastest as possible, create a release, then on the next hardfork completely block it.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The good thing is... the top pools were responsive
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Some have yet to respond or implement anything even if they did respond
-
sgp[m]
I'd still rather make it difficult than not
-
rbrunner
"No brainer" comes to my mind
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Lmao
-
sgp[m]
I'm not here at all to say the protection is comprehensive or even effective, it'll depend on adoption
-
plowsof11
RavFX: instead of turning your monero nodes off, you can build with the tx extra reduction PR , or replace them with wownero nodes that come with the tx extra limit (ive just updated my wowtero nods for the HF now)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
You just disagrees with me when I said it was the correct decision
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But yeaj
-
ofrnxmr[m]
No brained
-
sgp[m]
but it's at least a tool people can use, and putting it out there. Now there at least is the ability for social pressure to accumulate
-
rbrunner
I am in the "keep but limit to 256 bytes" camp.
-
Rucknium[m]
I'm not against the tx relay PR. But don't put unrealistic expectations on it
-
rbrunner
I don't see me contradicting myself?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
You're also in the "I dont know his to attack a network" camp
-
ofrnxmr[m]
How*
-
sgp[m]
Rucknium[m]: Okay, so not against, but pessimistic it'll do anything. Totally fair
-
sgp[m]
If the worst is that no one is against, we should still get it out there
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ill stay posted in the pr
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And try to make sure mining pools are in board
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We can at least get the same pools that updated the templates
-
sgp[m]
p2pool can adopt, will force inscriptors to have to work with miners and make their life harder, will send message, we can pressure pools to update, etc
-
nioc
<sgp[m]> all that matters really is if the pools update <> some pools haven't updated to Rucknium's fix even when they were told it would benefit them
-
plowsof11
monero is centralised enough that if a few of the top pools use it we're fine , i mean, uhm
-
ofrnxmr[m]
^^
-
rbrunner
lol
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They even replied via email and retweeing me calling then out
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But failed yo update
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Some of the top 10
-
sgp[m]
sure, that's worst still not an argument against it really, just... neutral pessimism
-
ofrnxmr[m]
2miners being a bigger one
-
ofrnxmr[m]
sgp[m]: Im not against it
-
RavFX[m]
Unpacking objects: 100% (12/12), 17.06 KiB | 1.89 MiB/s, done.
-
RavFX[m]
-
RavFX[m]
* [new ref] refs/pull/8733/head -> fix_monero
-
RavFX[m]
Ok, I'm going to restart my node collection soon
-
rbrunner
Sounds cool.
-
nioc
plowsof11>(ive just updated my wowtero nods for the HF now) <<>> <3
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Mine are updated and running 🏃♂️
-
sgp[m]
Rucknium: here's a real-life barrier example. Suppose a Cake user is trying to use NFTs and is using our default node. I'd rather that default node (ours) reject the tx :p Doesn't prevent them from shopping around for a different node but it's still a minor roadblock that wasn't there before
-
rbrunner
Boomer's background music for today's discussion, at least as I see it: "Show, don't tell"
youtube.com/watch?v=FtpMeyjE6Rw
-
sech1
sgp[m] it won't matter as soon as all mining pools update and reject huge tx_extra
-
sgp[m]
sech1: I hope they do :)
-
sgp[m]
Ideally we can give them a carrot
-
sech1
If it gets released, 6 months later it will be virtually impossible to get into blockchain without solo mining
-
plowsof11
im sending my request to the hashvault miner now
-
sech1
so yes, a very dedicated NFT connoisseur can rent some NiceHash hashrate and mine a block with his transaction, but it's a totally different "fee" level :D
-
sech1
even considering he'd get block reward
-
plowsof11
hello mr hash miner , this my cat, i love this cat, if he on blockchain, am happy , pls consider next solo hash 1giga? thank for reading
-
sech1
because hashrate costs are usually 10% higher on NiceHash
-
sgp[m]
sech1: we seem to be in agreement about these things
-
sgp[m]
The skepticism from others is about whether mining pools will adopt this update, which I don't see as a reason not to roll out the change anyway personally
-
ofrnxmr[m]
^^ nono
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not skepticism
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Just dread
-
sech1
There will always be some % of miners running old nodes
-
rbrunner
I can imagine that many Monero users will follow, because they don't like Mordinals either.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We got over 80% of the he to update templates
-
sech1
consider p2pool with hundreds of nodes
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Doing it again is no problem.
-
meagain
mining_status
-
meagain
Not currently mining
-
meagain
start_mining <addr> 2
-
meagain
Error: Mining did not start -- Already mining
-
meagain
???
-
hv-bridge
<ERROR> I will slap
-
meagain
2023-03-17 17:19:16.166 I background mining is enabled, but not started, waiting until start triggers
-
meagain
confused by this logging
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Background mining = when your pc is idle
-
ofrnxmr[m]
You enabled background mining from the wallet, I presume
-
XMRPriest[m]
So when can we implement this point update on Tx extra
-
rbrunner
Pinging selsta
-
XMRPriest[m]
Is the code done? Can we click update lol we all know this needs to be done so lets get the ball rolling
-
rbrunner
But, well, they just come back from putting out an update ...
-
selsta
rbrunner: I'm here
-
rbrunner
Ah, good.
-
plowsof11
yeah we're talking about this PR atm:
monero-project/monero #8733
-
RavFX[m]
I'm builing it on my side.
-
RavFX[m]
I disabled my auto updater... Will turn it back on once the official update is released
-
RavFX[m]
s/builing/building/
-
selsta
I can do a release but merges etc depend on core team
-
Rucknium[m]
sgp: For now Mordinals users have to use a custom wallet to mint and transfer NFTs. If they accidentally try to transfer the Mordinal with a standard wallet, they would remove the ability to transfer forever. So Cake users would not be dealing with NFTs. FYI
-
Rucknium[m]
Source: RTFM
-
rbrunner
Tell luigi1111 we will put unflattering morbinals into the blockchain if they don't merge ASAP :)
-
plowsof11
luigi1111 is aware of 8733 please hold
-
rbrunner
I don't think that anybody in their right mind really thinks as far as *transferring* that garbage, honestly
-
selsta
is there consensus on merging it and putting out a release?
-
rbrunner
Well, nobody here right now seems to be against it ... but yeah, probably we are not representative
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
XMRPriest[m]
Well I have a poll of about 300 people who voted to get rid of monero NFTs
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Lovely
-
rbrunner
Really?
-
luigi1111w
just approve it then it's ez
-
XMRPriest[m]
I don’t think it’s an issue the majority of monero users would be against if we fight against it
-
rbrunner
Where is that poll?
-
XMRPriest[m]
-
plowsof11
a twitter poll bridged to telegram
-
rbrunner
Nice.
-
sech1
NFT = Non-Fungible Tokens on a Fungible base layer is literally an oxymoron
-
sech1
I guess everyone in Monero should be against it
-
sgp[m]
sech1: Yeah, I'm not against NFTs, but they need a different home
-
rbrunner
Doesn't seem to impress people however
-
XMRPriest[m]
The comments have fairly interesting commentary as well
-
sech1
We made luigi sad :(
-
sgp[m]
Lol we ruined his weekend :(
-
XMRPriest[m]
The NFTs ruined the past two days for me hahaha
-
nioc
RTFMucknium
-
Rucknium[m]
I can't read C++ code, so I have to RTFM
-
sgp[m]
New mordinal blockchain, merge mined with Monero, with stealth addresses still there but ring sigs ripped out
-
selsta
i can do the release tomorrow if luigi merges today
-
XMRPriest[m]
🍾🍾🍻🍻🤩
-
Rucknium[m]
What about testing it on stagenet/testnet first?
-
rbrunner
Not bad as an idea, but testnet is very small, and has no pools. Hard to get far with a test, seems to me.
-
rbrunner
And I guess the code is simple enough, and will only get merged if reviewed anyway.
-
XMRPriest[m]
I trust Selsta has done the proper due diligence with the code
-
XMRPriest[m]
It’s not like it’s new code either
-
selsta
I haven't reviewed it, others have
-
XMRPriest[m]
Well seems like you trust the others haha
-
yang2
This weekend will be organised a Libreplanet FLOSS conference. It start with an introduction talk by RMS at 15:00 EDT time
fsf.org/live +
libreplanet.org . You can use command 'date --date="Mar 17 2023 15:00:00 EDT"' to convert it into local time.
-
rooter0_
I don't understand why xmrig doesn't use my AMD GPU. I've put /opt/rocm-5.4.0/opencl/lib/ into the .json config. That's where libOpenCL.so is.
-
sech1
Try to put /opt/rocm-5.4.0/opencl/lib/libOpenCL.so in the config?
-
rooter0_
k
-
rooter0_
YIKES! It twerks! Ty sech1.
-
rooter0_
ooops nah that's its mem at 50%
-
rooter0_
But now it doesn't crap out on OpenCL.
-
rooter0_
GPU still not being given work.
-
sech1
What GPU is it and are you trying to mine Monero? Then it's better not to use GPU
-
rooter0_
sech1: AMD RX 6600. It's not being used for anything else so might as well try it. Max 72 watts.
-
rbrunner
"Well seems like you trust the others haha" Yeah, one of the big misunderstandings in cryptocurrencies IMHO: trustless software development somehow isn't
-
BobSacmanto[m]
Monero has not moved but bitcoin has gone up. Does this mean monero has reach some stability in its price regardless of bitcoin and other cryptos?
-
rbrunner
Over which time frame?
-
sech1
RX 6600 can probably give you 300-400 h/s maximum, if you manage to make it work
-
sech1
set "enabled": true, in "opencl" section of config.json
-
rooter0_
sech1: It is true in "opencl":. And apparently xmrig automatically fills out the "cn"'s.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
<sgp[m]> "Yeah, I'm not against NFTs..." <- You can't be against NFTs and for tx_extra. Either you disincentivize arbitrary data storage by removing tx_extra or your incentivize it by keeping tx_extra. Nobody is claiming that arbtrary data storage is completely excludable, but if its way more complex, costly, inefficient, and constrained than not, and if the API around arbitrary data storage is not stable (e.g. first you store it in
-
Alex|LocalMonero
outputs, then outputs are limited and you're forced to store it in CLSAG, then CLSAG is replaced by something else and you're forced to go yet another way etc) then you highly discourage any dev from arbtrary data storage on the Monero chain as any hard fork will force them to fit their ever-more square peg in an ever-more round hole.
-
rooter0_
... but nvtop shows a blip of 100% then zero.
-
sech1
then it must be something with rocm drivers
-
sech1
the best chance you'll get with windows 10 and amd drivers from around 2020
-
monerobull[m]
Alex|LocalMonero: Cat is out of the bag
-
monerobull[m]
monerobull[m]: We fucked around and found out
-
monerobull[m]
3 days ago, morbs weren't a thing
-
rooter0_
Ah crap. (CentOS Stream 9.1)
-
monerobull[m]
Now they are
-
Alex|LocalMonero
So now is the time to remove tx_extra
-
monerobull[m]
And they'll probably be adapted as long as there is any way to put arb data on chain
-
Alex|LocalMonero
I want to see them try.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
We adapted to ASICs, didn't we?
-
monerobull[m]
I like the idea of optional, very small tx_extra, that has to be encrypted
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Despite their inevitability
-
sgp[m]
I disagree. How is being for a string record pro NFT? These are different things.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: Because a string can store an NFT?
-
rbrunner
It's only a picture in reality, don't think they really fully function as NFTs - not that this deters anybody ...
-
monerobull[m]
monerobull[m]: As long as all tx_extra using transactions look the same, users don't loose that much privacy
-
sgp[m]
It could refer to one saved elsewhere, but that's not really the same thing
-
-
Alex|LocalMonero
How many bytes do you think you need to store this?
-
sgp[m]
well, that image is 48 kB, so, that
-
rbrunner
64
-
sgp[m]
:)
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: You don't seem to understand the question.
-
sgp[m]
If someone wants to make a 1 byte "NFT" and store 1 byte there then so be it
-
rbrunner
So how much is it?
-
sech1
There are only 256 possible 1-byte NFTs! Very rare!
-
rbrunner
lol
-
rbrunner
How many times do you get that into the new limit that I am "pro", 256 bytes?
-
Alex|LocalMonero
rbrunner: Exactly 256 bytes
-
rbrunner
Ahhhh :)
-
monerobull[m]
sech1: Not if i chain them
-
XMRPriest[m]
Can someone not combine the number of tx extras to post the same images or higher quality ? It will just raise fees correct ?
-
sgp[m]
yeah you can always store 1kb here and 1kb there, etc
-
rooter0_
"randomx allocated 2336 MB (2080+256) huge pages 0% 0/1168 +JIT (0 ms)" 0%?
-
Alex|LocalMonero
XMRPriest[m]: That's correct, you are opening the bandwidth for arbitrary data storage.
-
sech1
0% huge pages
-
sech1
you need to enable them
-
XMRPriest[m]
So the road still leads to needing to removing tx extra entirely
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Whereas with removing tx_extra you are limiting the bandwidth of arbitrary data storage.
-
sech1
or run xmrig with sudo
-
sgp[m]
no you aren't
-
sgp[m]
you're cutting off 1 method
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Yes you are.
-
sgp[m]
there are many others
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Limiting the bandwidth
-
monerobull[m]
If arb data can be put onto the chain in any way at all, it will be
-
sgp[m]
no, because I can still make 1000 transactions with data stored in a different place than tx extra, etc
-
monerobull[m]
I think make it as prune-able as possible
-
sgp[m]
tx extra is easy to prune
-
monerobull[m]
Had Tari only been released before this 😭
-
rooter0_
sech1: I'm trying to figure out how to enable MSR MOD manually, so might as well figure out hugepages too.
-
rbrunner
Will be. If we move anything protocol-related out of there. Non-trivial now
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: Yeah, and it's going to be way less efficient. Hence, you are limiting the bandwidth.
-
rooter0_
Only getting 11k H/s with 50 CPUs.
-
sgp[m]
if anything we're requiring more on-chain bloat to store the 255 bytes of data
-
sech1
-
sech1
for MSR mod
-
sgp[m]
that 255 bytes could take either ~255 bytes in txextra, or a bunch more in a more convoluted storage way
-
rooter0_
Saw that but some commands fail.
-
rbrunner
Not sure what you mean. tx_extra will be optional
-
rooter0_
(as root)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rbrunner: Going to split them from my rings?
-
rooter0_
Detected Zen1/Zen2 CPU
-
rooter0_
wrmsr: CPU 0 cannot set MSR 0xc0011020 to 0x0000000000000000
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: No, we're disincentivizing arbirtrary data by making it more expensive, more convoluted, and refusing to establish a stable API for arbitrary data storage, which is the most devastating signal againt any honest dev wanting to store arbitrary data. With tx_extra, we are signalling "Arbitrary data? Come on in! There's a special place for you here".
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Or do I get 15 nft decoys?
-
sgp[m]
I somewhat agree, I am however okay with allowing a small string there, as the least bad option
-
rbrunner
I don't understand the question
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Sgp
-
sgp[m]
we minimize other harm by allowing a string
-
Alex|LocalMonero
The harm minimization is marginal, the implications of signalling pro-arbitrary data are much worse.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I prefer we figure out full membership proofs, or also talk about not having any rings for nfts etc
-
rbrunner
That "signalling" concept irks me somehow.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not that we fragment the network
-
rbrunner
After all, no official Monero software allows you to put something there
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The node was forked lolz
-
rbrunner
Isn't that also signalling at least *something*?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Can always push the prs
-
rbrunner
Pretty women also signal "rape me". No, dammit, they don't.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Sus
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Lol
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Anyway, Txextra volume is the issue
-
rbrunner
Er ... yes?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not having heavy usage atm feels like its not a problem
-
sgp[m]
I disagree, because I think supporting a string so Monero transactions can reference some other system is important for a payment network. That feature is going to exist in some form, so we need to find the best way to handle that
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Tf_junkdrawer isnt the place for it
-
rooter0_
Anyone know how xmrig checks if it's in a VM? I need to fool it since I pass through CPUs.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its not the place for subaddresses either
-
XMRPriest[m]
Or kyc info
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rooter0_: #xmrmine:matrix.org
-
rbrunner
So maybe we should rename "tx_extra" to "extra_payment_network_info". You know, wink wink, for right "signalling"
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Mhm
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But already thought out and no
-
bit_thanos[m]
ofrnxmr: problem is heavy usage will come
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Doesn't work with heavy volume
-
rbrunner
Am I allowed to say something against "will come", *not* conditional? Without earning me another "fuck off"?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
If monero could handle non fungible transactions, with no run members (aka the plan for coinbase), you might have an idea
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But ducttaping and limiting the tx_funeral is .. no
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Remove it and do it properly
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rbrunner: thick skin helps with the fuck offs
-
rbrunner
It does, yes.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We are on the internet after all
-
rbrunner
Right. Just mentioned it again for effect :)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Bring your flamesuit is the term
-
rbrunner
We hold up pretty well, IMHO, discussing here, despite the large differences in opinion.
-
rbrunner
Which is in itself pretty interesting, if you think about it.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Im used to it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I dont bring ideas in a way that makes people WANT to agree
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But IDC if they like ne
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Either you follow the facts or youre the real jackass
-
rbrunner
I like facts.
-
cryptogrampy[m]
I have a dumb question- would thorchain or serai's use of tx_extra be fingerprintable and create a pool of similar transactions
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Always business, never personal ♥️
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I love yall even if I might be mean
-
ofrnxmr[m]
cryptogrampy[m]: Yes
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Serai will post view keys
-
fmlatghor
is it possible that the blockchain will eventually get too big, even for pruning?
-
sech1
rooter0_ you can't use MSR mod in a VM, it's not an xmrig check. VM hypervisor will not let you do it.
-
cryptogrampy[m]
too big is totally relative and meaningless.
-
cryptogrampy[m]
it depends on how quickly storage cost goes down over time
-
fmlatghor
cryptogrampy[m]: too big for home users to run
-
rbrunner
Too big gets bigger everyday day :)
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: Not really if using proper caching techniques, HDD are cheap.
-
RavFX[m]
But it's useless bloat for monero. They make other blockchains more appropriate for NFTs
-
rbrunner
My first computer had 1024 bytes of RAM.
-
RavFX[m]
rbrunner: Mine 512k
-
rooter0_
sech1: I'm passing through CPU cores so it seems it should be possible. There are ways to hide the fact that it's in a VM, but none I've tried yet influence xmrig.
-
fmlatghor
rbrunner: yeah, and supposedly that trend will keep continuing, but environmentally concerning...
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Fmlatgagh
-
rbrunner
That only means it's a quite complicated and complex question
-
rooter0_
... or I could do the setting on the host?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Monero has historically been great about efficiencies
-
sech1
pass through doesn't mean you can mess with MSR registers
-
sech1
I never heard of MSR mod working in a VM
-
rbrunner
It's a true and tried FAQ on the Monero subreddit. About once every two weeks or so. Really has many facets.
-
cryptogrampy[m]
we just need DNA-based storage mechanisms
-
RavFX[m]
If you guys use xmrig in a VM, you have to patch you're hypervisor so it pass the MSR patch to the real CPU, I did a patch for XEN, for use with Qubes OS.
-
cryptogrampy[m]
should be able to store all of the world's data today in a fingernail
-
fmlatghor
cryptogrampy[m]: I heard of that
-
rooter0_
If the registers are only available on the host... maybe mod them there for benefit in the VM?
-
sech1
you can run MSR mod on host, it will give the same effect
-
cryptogrampy[m]
monero and blockchains drive CPU advancement, malware resistance, and decrease in storage costs
-
rbrunner
Sounds almost a bit too good
-
rooter0_
Out of time but I'll try it tomorrow sech1.
-
RavFX[m]
You can patch the MSR directly on the host and it will apply the each VM.
-
RavFX[m]
Or patch the hypervisor to make it apply the MSR patch to the host CPU if a VM software patch them on the vcpu.
-
RavFX[m]
Note that you must pin the CPU properly too if you don't use all the cpu cores because if the vcpu hops all around then you are going to patch the wrong cpu. Also, in the case of xen, if you are not pining then then you are likely to patch the same exact host cpu core for every vcpu msr you patch
-
RavFX[m]
(patch need to be applied on all core)
-
rooter0_
I'm too stupid to mod KVM.
-
fmlatghor
how big will the blockchain likely be in 2024?
-
rooter0_
... but if the relevant MSR register (pre-fetch?) is only available on the host, setting it there should give benefit in the VM.
-
RavFX[m]
You can also patch grub, just edit the asm file that initialize the CPU stuff. They have look to patch specific msr on each core so patch code there to also disable the hardware prefetchers on all cores (it will get patched when you boot and stay patched
-
RavFX[m]
s/look/loop/
-
RavFX[m]
rooter0_: Yep, if you set them on the host it will work just fine on the VM
-
rooter0_
(don't know what an asm is)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
fmlatghor: Pruned 75gb 🔮
-
rooter0_
Cool.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Jk. Will be 150 by end if April
-
fmlatghor
and maybe 160 in 2025?
-
fmlatghor
is it growing like 10gb per year?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Im being sarcastic.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
You never know unless you also account for volume
-
ofrnxmr[m]
So.. if we did 100k tx/ day everyday, you could answer that question
-
fmlatghor
right now it's like 50gb pruned
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Without volume metrics, its impossible
-
sgp[m]
we should livestream the monero konferenco talks to the monero blockchain in 4k
-
sgp[m]
2 minute video chunks
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Haha
-
ofrnxmr[m]
1frame per tx
-
rooter0_
So pruning has -no- effect on hashrate? Because you don't need the older transactions?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
24tx/second
-
fmlatghor
huh so storage really isn't the biggest issue, since the pruned sice is basically the sice of a moderngame
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Or 60tx/sec (high framerate)
-
RavFX[m]
That would bloat the blockchain fast, especially if using raw uncompressed Bitmaps
-
Rucknium[m]
rooter0_: Pruning doesnt get rid of old transactions. It eliminates some signature data Go to #xmrmine:matrix.org for mining help
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its doable.
-
RavFX[m]
but it's totally doable yes 😂
-
fmlatghor
Monero is the best crypto I've found so far
-
rooter0_
#xmrmine:matrix.org is pretty dead.
-
fmlatghor
I've never really had any reason to use XMR though
-
ofrnxmr[m]
No it isnt
-
fmlatghor
I just use cash
-
fmlatghor
for anonymity
-
ofrnxmr[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Xmrmine is actually very active
-
RavFX[m]
Monero is the only crypto useful as a currency so far
-
RavFX[m]
other crypto have other use
-
fmlatghor
RavFX[m]: what about USDT though?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
#monero is too active. Xmrmine is where you want to be.
-
sgp[m]
who needs torrents when you can anonymously and cheaply store raw bluray rips in the monero blockchain, and people can anonymously download them /s
-
ofrnxmr[m]
fmlatghor: Treasury bond backed fake seizable money
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: That's work as a public currency, if you like being tracked. I do prefer cash equivalent crypto...
-
ofrnxmr[m]
sgp: you weren't joking though :)
-
RavFX[m]
And yeah, USDT is seizable.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
You can stream from the blockchain easily
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Cough "Easily"
-
fmlatghor
oh then fuck USDT
-
fmlatghor
you guys heard of Chia / XCH?
-
RavFX[m]
I could cook something pretty easy using the monero junk drawer to host the frames. Can have it done by tomorrow :D
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Have they heard of xmr
-
ofrnxmr[m]
RavFX[m]: Pigs fly
-
ofrnxmr[m]
(Reference to rbrunner saying "prove/do it", saying it cant be done 😅)
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: Yeah, it's another transparent scam
-
RavFX[m]
Not for currency if you want cash equivalent.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Monero dcma request incoming
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Monero cables incoming
-
fmlatghor
RavFX[m]: chia or USDT?
-
RavFX[m]
If someone release that feature it's going to get full of p0rn real fast
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Bitcoiners are boring
-
ofrnxmr[m]
We can do so much
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: Both are unsuitable for cash equivalent
-
RavFX[m]
But USDT can be seized
-
RavFX[m]
USDT is just for very temporary evac
-
fmlatghor
I guess my concern with the viablity of XMR is you'd have to transfer it to USD every time you receive it because of the volitality
-
fmlatghor
at higher transactions
-
fmlatghor
do you guys use XMR for regular transactions, and if so, how?
-
fmlatghor
where is it supported?
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: I'm about to get my XMR birthday (1000 TX in my wallet)
-
RavFX[m]
It's my bank account, should be regular enough
-
sp00kins
fmlatghtor: right now mostly just internet services
-
ofrnxmr[m]
fmlatghor: Nah
-
fmlatghor
sp00kins: can you buy food or stuff? Like what are you able to buy with it that's practical
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its volatile in part because you do that
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Monero.com cakepay
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: I just dump some in cash for local usage, and use tha cash to buy food, rent and aliexpress shiet
-
RavFX[m]
If you are in the US, then yeah, cakepay can help you with that
-
sp00kins
fmlatghtor: I occasionally come across local shops that take it but typically you just switch it for cash to pay for local stuff
-
fmlatghor
RavFX[m]: cakepay is for giftcards
-
fmlatghor
seems impratical
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its not
-
fmlatghor
sp00kins: what country do you live in?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
0 conf, on the spot
-
RavFX[m]
fmlatghor: It have 0 conf I think
-
RavFX[m]
And you can punch the exact number you need
-
RavFX[m]
so you have no problem using it right at the register
-
fmlatghor
ofrnxmr[m]: I misread that
-
sgp[m]
0 conf for usa, in-app only. buy.cakepay.com has 2 conf
-
sp00kins
fmlatghor: US
-
fmlatghor
huh, I didn't know XMR was that widely used
-
boog900[m]
-
sgp[m]
lol
-
sgp[m]
NERD ALERT 🚨
-
RavFX[m]
stop spaming morbicrap until it's properly blocked. Thanks
-
sgp[m]
those rx 470s were a total steal at <$190 ea
-
RavFX[m]
I brought a RX480 at about 160$ like 4-5 years ago at least
-
sp00kins
fmlatghor: you can load cards from cakepay onto your phone and pay for lots of things that way
-
sgp[m]
cake bugfix is being submitted today. minor updates. we didn't sneak the new trocador updates in to this one
-
fmlatghor
is Haven any better than USDT
-
cryptogrampy[m]
no
-
cryptogrampy[m]
unless you like losing money
-
RavFX[m]
Haven is 22 cents now or something like that. Like any singularity coins should be
-
RavFX[m]
* Haven xUSD is 22
-
RavFX[m]
(Singularity coin is how I call algorithmic stable coin)
-
Stnby[m]
<boog900[m]> "
mordinals.org/item/235" <- Whats that? Ethereum mining rig?
-
Siren[m]
Sgp in a liminal space with ETH miner NFT
-
sgp[m]
for the record, I didn't mint that
-
sgp[m]
just in case that isn't obvious
-
nioc
can I store gold on the monero blockchain?
-
Stnby[m]
sgp[m]: No one can know who minted it. Nor anyone deserves to know. Its Monero NFT after all...
-
monerobull[m]
morbinals guy very based
-
monerobull[m]
-
monerobull[m]
webp now shows up
-
monerobull[m]
and gifs too
-
Siren[m]
Morbinals should mint puppy linux iso
-
RavFX[m]
monerobull[m]: What about HEVC?
-
RavFX[m]
Can I start to upload?
-
Siren[m]
> <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> What about HEVC?
-
Siren[m]
> Can I start to upload?
-
Siren[m]
-
monerobull[m]
I have no idea
-
Siren[m]
I don't think it cares what format
-
RavFX[m]
looking at my copyrighted movies collection
-
monerobull[m]
You can upload whatever you want
-
monerobull[m]
Just a matter of if mordinals explorer will display it
-
RavFX[m]
Looking at my gay p0rn collection
-
RavFX[m]
Cloning into 'mordinals'...
-
monerobull[m]
Good luck building
-
RavFX[m]
Don't worry, it's not the first CMAKE snafu I get in my life
-
fmlatghor
hmm Monero seems to have a mostly stable price
-
RavFX[m]
Monero is the prime stablecoin
-
fmlatghor
yeah
-
fmlatghor
I gotta start using it
-
RavFX[m]
Because it's being utilized as a currency...
-
fmlatghor
Ijust haven't found it that practical
-
fmlatghor
because there's other ways to be anonymous
-
fmlatghor
but it's like cash, except it's not controlled by the government
-
fmlatghor
or a central authority
-
fmlatghor
why did it spike in 2021?
-
fmlatghor
may 7th
-
RavFX[m]
It did last nice good pivot when troud'eau scammed the truckers in Canada
-
RavFX[m]
don't know about 2021, would have to look
-
sp00kins
anyone do anything that lets them earn xmr directly ?
-
monerobull[m]
Yes
-
RavFX[m]
Yes
-
monerobull[m]
-
RavFX[m]
I just do code for XMR.
-
RavFX[m]
no XMR, no code
-
sp00kins
RavFX[m]: ah that's cool. freelance programming for xmr ?
-
sp00kins
is there a forum where people are posting jobs/ads to be completed in xmr or do you just advertise your skillset yourself ?
-
anarkiocrypto[m]
-
jtgrassie
sgp[m]: for the record, I also see the benefit of tx-extra removal, especially so with Alex|LocalMonero's suggestion of limiting txs to 2-out
-
jtgrassie
as that at least disincentivizes doing steg
-
sgp[m]
we're limiting txs to 2 out now? lol
-
sgp[m]
we might want to slow the restrictions down a little bit
-
sgp[m]
2 out only is especially painful with the 10 block lock. I can't tell you how often I pay >1 person for giveaways etc
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: You haven't kept up with the discussion. 2-out-limit is only proposed in tandem with tx-chaining, which removes the 10-block-lock pain.
-
jtgrassie
It was Alex|LocalMonero's suggestion and I think it has some merit. We have to do something though and path of least change would be keep extra and encrypt.
-
sgp[m]
Alex|LocalMonero: is that the proposal where there is a separate anonymity pool? or something else
-
Alex|LocalMonero
And as per koe tx chaining is almost a certainty with seraphis.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Look at the block explorer sgp . Txs with more than 2 outputs are almost all related to exchanges/pools/businesses. They clearly stand out and harm fungibility, as they are prime targets for output linking.
-
sgp[m]
I'm aware there are downsides to having multiple output sizes, but there are significant usability regressions by restricting to 2 only
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: Not with tx chaining.
-
jtgrassie
And with low fee txs, the benefit of batching is low anyway
-
jtgrassie
we're already constrained to 16 now, so paying hundreds of people makes a load of txs (using transfer_split).
-
xmrfn[m]
+50 Internets for referencing the Best Band in the Galaxy
-
xmrfn[m]
-5 Internets for linking to GAFAM; we have Invidious!
yewtu.be/watch?v=FtpMeyjE6Rw
-
sgp[m]
It's still a 93% reduction
-
Alex|LocalMonero
The reduction is irrelevant with tx chaining.
-
jtgrassie
a reduction to 2-outs wouldn't be a bad change, even desirable per Alex's point about fingerprinting pools/exchanges
-
sgp[m]
I'm trying to find the latest chaining proposal since there have been many over the years
-
kinghat[m]
if data can be injected to outputs or tx-extra, and tx-extra is the location that causes the least harm, why would a malicious actor choose tx-extra over outputs?
-
sgp[m]
I keep running into this issue on binning for chaining, which says chaining was removed
monero-project/research-lab #84
-
sgp[m]
Is there a more modern proposal written up?
-
xmrfn[m]
> You can't be against NFTs and for tx_extra
-
xmrfn[m]
Limiting tx_extra to a few hundred bytes seems to be both those things
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: I can't find the github issue right now but ask Koe, he'll give it to you. He told me that tx chaining is just a matter of adding it to the wallet post-Seraphis.
-
sgp[m]
okay, so that's something we can consider over a year from now at the earliest, if everything falls nicely into place
-
jtgrassie
Alex|LocalMonero: It's not obvious to me why you'd need chaining for a 2-out restriction. Can you elaborate?
-
sgp[m]
-
Alex|LocalMonero
jtgrassie: It's not strictly necessary but it mitigates the pain of the 10-block-lock. Without tx chaining the 10-block-lock will hurt entities like exchanges that need to send out dozens of withdrawals per minute and force them to wait 20 minutes after the available enotes run out.
-
sgp[m]
Plus it makes it more difficult to "make change" in advance if I can only make 1 additional input per tx, etc
-
jtgrassie
But isn't that the same problem we already have?
-
sgp[m]
Yeah, but much worse :)
-
Alex|LocalMonero
jtgrassie: It is, but as of now you can send 16 withdrawals per unblocked enote, while after limiting to 2 you're only able to send out 2 withdrawals per unblocked enote,assuming the enote fits the withdrawal size perfectly.
-
jtgrassie
I don't see it as a lot worse. Wallets already live with a 16 out restriction and split transfer when more destinations are needed.
-
jtgrassie
Alex|LocalMonero: ahha, yes, I see now.
-
sgp[m]
Eg, paying 100 people would currently take 7 transactions, or 100, and the lock times are additive
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Right, so you need chaining to sidestep that issue.
-
sgp[m]
* or 100 if 2 out was enforced, and
-
jtgrassie
yep yep, understood, ty
-
sgp[m]
I'll need to look closely at the resulting chaining ideas, since if there was no lock time in a sensible implementation, I'd be much more likely to support output restrictions
-
susman1[m]
is there a localmonero matrix?
-
Alex|LocalMonero
susman1[m]: There is, #localmonero:agoradesk.com
-
ofrnxmr[m]
#localmonero:agoradesk.com
-
Rucknium[m]
tx chaining does not solve 10 block lock time. I don't know why this idea is repeated
-
jtgrassie
sgp[m]: yeah we can't consider 2-outs till we have chaining, so I'm back to extra-encrypted for now.
-
sgp[m]
got it
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Rucknium[m]: It doesn't solve it but it sidesteps it.
-
Rucknium[m]
How is it supposed to work?People will still need to wait 10 blocks for each tx to be confirmed before sending a new one. So sending to 100 people starting from a single output means waiting 1,000 blocks
-
Rucknium[m]
if we restrict to 2 outs
-
Rucknium[m]
Maybe I am just not understanding
-
Rucknium[m]
Personally I will wait for koe to confirm or refute that this is a viable idea
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Rucknium[m]: With chaining you make a chain of txs where the output of the 1st tx is spent in the 2nd tx and so on. You can broadcast the chain and it gets put in one block.
-
sgp[m]
are there any traceability benefits there? I need to think about if that behavior can be broken apart, so the transaction still stand out for the reason of the outputs being spent in the same block, and that raising a red flag for tracing
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp: you can ask tevador and koe, they have the deepest understanding of this. Tevador is also in favor of limiting to 2 outs.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The tx's would normally all be shown together, whereas this would split them but make then able to be tied back together
-
ofrnxmr[m]
... I think. Pressed send before confirming 🙃
-
sgp[m]
Other benefits aside (I'm not saying there are any), there's no effective privacy improvement between having 1 transaction to 16 outs, versus 15 known-to-be-connected transactions in the same block, at least as far as I can see
-
sgp[m]
s/are/aren't/
-
jtgrassie
if you paid 16 people in a single tx (current) or chained 16 txs (future), isn't the privacy the same?
-
hbs[m]
Is it possible that one transaction on a chain never gets mined for whatever reason therefore breaking it?
-
jtgrassie
i.e. they are all related from the same spender
-
ofrnxmr[m]
jtgrassie: Yea
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
ofrnxmr[m]
A regular multi out is already able to be tied to the same transaction
-
sgp[m]
jtgrassie: yeah exactly
-
Rucknium[m]
tx chaining is oversold. Not by the person(s) who came up with it, but by people who want to read too much into it.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Um
-
Alex|LocalMonero
The benefit of overcoming the 10-block-lock is already a monumental achievement Rucknium
-
sgp[m]
tx chaining allows for spending to 100 people in the same block with 7 transactions, which is good for UX, but there's no privacy improvement, right?
-
Alex|LocalMonero
This is not overselling at all.
-
Rucknium[m]
I don't think it allows that. Check in #MRL with koe himself
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Yes, koe and tevador will confirm it for you.
-
plowsof11
lets make it a 9 block lock first?
-
sgp[m]
Alex|LocalMonero: I think to his point, you're conflating two unrelated things. I agree, removing the block lock is useful, but this would only remove the lock for a person starting with 1 output and wishing too send to >15 recipients, right? Then the locktime issues still apply after?
-
plowsof11
single digits
-
Rucknium[m]
Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk: Give your proposal in #MRL so that I don't misinterpret it and misstate it
-
Alex|LocalMonero
sgp[m]: Yes, but this is the majority of cases. And this prevents output steg. And this increases tx uniformity.
-
sgp[m]
Alex|LocalMonero: It may increase output uniformity, but it creates a new class of inputs (those spent in the same block they are made), leading to no net privacy improvement
-
sgp[m]
It doesn't provide any improvements to lock time for when someone needs to pay 15 or fewer recipients in the same block
-
Alex|LocalMonero
Well, to be fair, you don't know that that's how it's going to work.
-
sgp[m]
This is based on how you described it, but if it's something totally different, I'm happy to look at it ofc
-
Alex|LocalMonero
As I've said, you need to talk to koe and tevador with regards to the privacy aspect specifics. The output steg prevention and 10-block-lock sidestepping still stands.
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sgp[m]
I haven't seen how the dots are connected but I promise to look into it more later to make sure I'm not missing anything
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sgp[m]
I know block lock sucks, and I know transaction metadata differences suck; I definitely want to help the UX and privacy that relates to these
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sgp[m]
the proposals I saw before for the block lock all reduced privacy. maybe there's a new one I missed
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Alex|LocalMonero
If you think tx metadata differences suck you should be against tx_extra.
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kayabanerve[m]
TX chaining does not remove the 10-block lock. They're two distinct discussions.
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kayabanerve[m]
> You can broadcast the chain and it gets put in one block.
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kayabanerve[m]
This is not how it works
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kayabanerve[m]
TX chaining is the ability to create a transaction B reliant on a transaction A before A has been added to the ledger. It has no on-ledger distinctions.
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kayabanerve[m]
TX chaining enables higher level protocols. It has nothing to do with making services perform payouts better.
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kayabanerve[m]
There's a few atomic swap/payment channel proposals reliant on it. Then there's also user stories available.
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kayabanerve[m]
Let's say I want to donate $500 to charity with someone, yet I don't trust that person to actually donate money. We can create a 2-2 multisig and a transaction donating $1000 to charity. We can also create a transaction returning to me my $500.
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kayabanerve[m]
Then, I can send $500 to the multisig. Only if the other person also sends $500 will the charity get $1000. If the other person walks, I get my funds returned.
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kayabanerve[m]
That's what transaction chaining is. The ability to create a TX B reliant on the existence of TX A. That isn't possible under the current Monero.
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sgp[m]
Thanks for the explanation
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Alex|LocalMonero
Ah, in that case I misunderstood tx chaining.
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Rucknium[m]
Thank you all.
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Alex|LocalMonero
tevador: brought up tx chaining as the solution last time the batching issue was brought up with limiting to 2 outs, so I'm now not sure what he was referring to.
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kayabanerve[m]
I have no idea without being able to read the messages in question for myself.
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kayabanerve[m]
I believe the primary proposal for bypassing the 10 block lock was bs removing privacy. Those schemes may have taken advantage of TX chaining. TX chaining alone isn't enough though.
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kayabanerve[m]
Or it may have been proposed to use TX chaining to create all of the TXs at once, so that anyone can add them to the chain latter (removing the signer interactivity requirement).