<m​mgen:monero.social> 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, 84 EUR

<m​mgen:monero.social> Fanless mini-PC: de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003330185279.html

<m​mgen:monero.social> Fanless mini-PC: de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003330185279.html

<m​mgen:monero.social> 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, 84 eur

<m​mgen:monero.social> I own three of those, they've been very reliable

Ah, cool to know. Here there have been certain complications with Aliexpress so not using it (long story). Plus, you have to prepay everything, and not know in advance what you are buying. I usually buy in online stores for cash and when I can inspect a thing prior to paying it off.

<m​mgen:monero.social> BlueyHealer: Prepaying is a risk for sure, but I've ordered from them many times and never been disappointed

Yeah, just not used to it. Plus, apparently there is a complication with paying with card there now and not sure if they would accept a prepaid.

<j​s:nil.im> plowsof: Could you set an icon for this room? It keeps throwing me off 😉

the problem is that i see an icon matrix side (possible cached), i will refresh remove/add an icon to see if that helps

<j​s:nil.im> plowsof: Can you try /devtools and explore room state? Do you see an m.room.avatar there?

<j​s:nil.im> If yes, then the room is fucked and doesn't federate properly anymore

<j​s:nil.im> Hm, room version is 9. That shouldn't be one with bugged federation, though.

<j​s:nil.im> now it has an m.room.avatar - that is empty 🙂

<j​s:nil.im> That worked, thx!

<j​s:nil.im> It's a different one than the off topic (bigger) - intentional to tell them apart?

every room is the same icon, this having no icon probably helped you find it easier

Elo

<j​s:nil.im> plowsof: The offtopic room has a black circle around it, this one here doesn't (which is better IMO)

<j​s:nil.im> Space also has the black circle

<j​s:nil.im> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/nil.im/vxwEOXrOKxWOMBlzmRWAPJVX

<j​s:nil.im> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/nil.im/ArZbSPlquGmFoUgOtobtQcsH

Any recommendations/reviews on DEXs? Bisq, et al

<b​asses:matrix.org> Haveno

Basicswapdex

how's bsx coming along?

bsx and unstoppable swap can compare notes

summer has finished today, time to work everyone!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Schools out for summer

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> heya plowsof , ima discontinue pointing RPC traffic to your nodes.

<j​s:nil.im> Thought of the day: Monero is a stablecoin (as the price keeps being the same). It's more stable than other coins that had the intention to be a stable coin! (Looking at you, Terra USD)

Monero is a stable coin with an upwards price slope over medium to long term horizons.

As its users, merchants, hoarders increase their economic activity on the monero network, XMR's purchasing power increase.

<j​s:nil.im> I'm not so sure about that. Monero is being used as an actual currency, which makes the price stable. If the price would go up, people would hold on to their XMR rather than spending it, creating the same problem as with Bitcoin.

That is preferable to having a tether-fueled ups-and-downs price craze a la btc and other shitcoins.

<j​s:nil.im> I mean, why would you spend something deflationary? Makes no sense.

@j​s:nil.im check out Monero's price history in 2024. Its value has been increasing steadily.

Currencies grow stronger as more economic activity take place in their monetary network effects.

Monero has this going for it.

That's why its purchasing power is poised to increase.

k4 good. started pushing some new updates this past week. Price fetch over tor, protection against accidentallt shutting down while swaps are in progress, updated coincurve, fixing monero dowbload failures, updated to 18.3.4 and a good list of things wip for this week

ofrnxmr: sounds good!

The dev branch has latest updates

Also improved my basicswap-bash installer/management scripts to check if basicswap is running before performing tasks and to auto update coin binaries while updating basicswap

ofrnxmr: I haven't tried setting up the basicswapdex software locally. But I did so for haveno-reto (tested it very briefly). Is BSX also at a comparable stage to haveno-reto in terms of its use-readiness?

We should have update notifications for basicswap and coin libraries in soon

If you use my bash installer :P id argue that its very usable and works quite well

Is there an appimage for BSX in the works? I kinda remember hearing about it here and there.

I'd wait a few days though, as the coincurve and new orderbook updates should be released soon

Someone tried to make an appimage, but never finished. I thought about making a deb, but honestly, a lot of changes are going to be made

"a deb" <--- man, I think we will have the same trouble with haveno-reto in this

So better to save the packaging of a new installer for later down the road. We recently changed repo addresses, for example, to a new oeg for `basicswap`

Org*

I keep repeating this: users of QubesOS and TailsOS find the .deb packaging disadvantageous for their workflow.

Ppl kept asking for a deb, i said "why..."

TailsOS doesn't let you use `sudo apt install` and QubesOS users might not want to mess around with copying a whole new template, etc. An AppImage just works by double-clicking on it. Dumb-easy.

Where can I found the stats of block rewards per block over time? I've found monero.stackexchange.com/questions/…ward-and-transaction-fees-over-time but still would need some numbers instead of an image.

id prefer appimage or flatpak

"id prefer appimage or flatpak" <--- yes please.

Trust me, I use feather with AppImage inside Qubes-Whonix, and it is MILES better than messing around with a .deb.

Its a python app that build/runs from a venv. There is a docker install, but imo, its an utter PITA to manage your instance with

You don't want to be responding to customer support queries from darkweb forums about "how do I install le deb package on tails"

Manage = add coins, upgrade, enable tor etc

Fkn tails lol. I added tails support to the bash installer but due to tor ddos i could never get it to finish

"docker" <--- Has there been a consideration towards using podman?

no

Docker is pretty pointless for bsx in its current form

my uneducated opinion tells me that podman doesn't require admin privs inside its containers, while docker needs so

the most simple and straight forward install is the bash install. After things are more standardized, the docker/container approach should be improved

"Fkn tails lol. I added tails support to the bash installer but due to tor ddos i could never get it to finish" <--- what do you mean? Why is an extragenous factor (tor ddos) messing with your local script writing process?

But atm its just convoluted for no reason

Yes

ofrnxmr: "After things are more standardized, the docker/container approach should be improved" <--- and appimage should be there for users.

Pip doesnt like tor. Had to.. iirc. Run torsocks for pip downloads, and then they would timeout repeatedly

interesting

I tried for like 8hrs straight and then gave up

ddos was bad so everything kept timing out. 2kb/s

Basicswap downloads blockchain software for each enabled chain

btw unstoppableswap dev is taking place here github.com/UnstoppableSwap/core 💪

So it would constantly store things outside of the appimage

"Basicswap downloads blockchain software for each enabled chain" <--- yeah, fucking hell

"So it would constantly store things outside of the appimage" <--- hmm... really no solution available for that?

I mean, look, people WILL want to use BSX inside TailsOS, on day 1. Your initial userbase are the bunch who use TailsOS and Qubes-Whonix. So, you will have some pains in responding their "how do I setup this .deb in tailsOS" questions.

the core software can be shipped in an appimage, but everyrhing else (wallet files, blockchains, node software etc) would be outside of the appimage in some config dir

It works on qubes, whonix etc

There is already a thread on forums.whonix.org about how to install the haveno-reto .deb package.

tails should work, i think

I personally just gave during my "testing" stage bcuz it literally maintain connections

plowsof: is unstoppableswap devs considering adding support for LTC? BTC swaps are so like 2019s..

I have stopped telling people to get btc to swap into XMR. I tell them to get LTC for cheaper and faster onboarding into XMR.

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> and i tell them they only need fiat to get their xmr lol

basicswap supports ltc<>xmr 👌

The btc fees are already so erratic and unpredictable that by the time we spread around the guides and "propaganda" about btc to xmr onboarding, the btc on-chain fees might already be 10 bucks.

And then we will have to back-track with the guides, prepare new ones, etc. etc.

I think XMR should start phasing-off the its btc-crutches.

btc isn't made for using

One last point on this and then I will shut-up: LTC with its maturing mimblewimble tech (stack wallet is going to incorporate it into its ltc wallet), offers a cheaper, faster and more private means of onboarding (swapping) into XMR.

Bsx supports ltc mweb

very nice

I should test it

Not yet for swapping, but the in-app wallet supports using it manually to shield/unshield

yes, I was thinking about shield/unshield

even that is much better than retarded btc transparent chain

iirc fhe next ltc release (from ltc) will enable swapping

"iirc fhe next ltc release (from ltc) will enable swapping" <--- big if true

Its always possible to enable an "auto shield/unshield" feature as well

yep

we really should put the grampa (le btc) to its bed (tomb).

Yeah. Its dangerous for atomic swaps

Can waste a lot of money just from the lock transactions

Yep

Need to swap like minimum few thousand to avoid a high % tx fee tax

Yep. Imagine trying to explain the normies all of this

No thanks I have better things to do with my time.

Yeah, so sad that random places are far more likely to accept BTC :(

"i bought $20 worth of btc and got -$20?"

ofrnxmr: "i bought $20 worth of btc and got -$20?" <--- fucking LOL. but it do be like that

BlueyHealer: don't go to random places then. You can find most of what you are paying with crypto online from an XMR accepting establishment.

Thats y i stopped using btc

ofrnxmr: +1

My non custodial wallet became _literally_ unusable

Feed were more than any of my "just DCA" outputs

I stopped using btc when its unreasonable design around block size limit plus the transaction fees stopped making sense to me.

"My non custodial wallet became _literally_ unusable" <--- yes. It happens to everyone.

So i had 2 choices: donate it ALL to miners, or wait for weeks?

k4r4b3y, I meant donations to projects.

I waited, then dumped 100% if it into monero

BlueyHealer: if a project doesn't take your XMR, you can ask them for an XMR address, OR, keep your XMR to yourself. You win in both cases.

Projects that accept btc donation but not xmr are foolish

"donate it ALL to miners, or wait for weeks?" <--- yeah I was in similar situation

Domain registrars ("proper", not like Njalla) are also rare for XMR, although doable. LTC is more common.

I only donate xmr

Nah

BlueyHealer: what do you mean "proper" domain registrar? Just use njalla bro

Orangewebsite, incognet and a few others accept xmr

I do use Njalla.

the domain reg industry is a scam anyways. there are no "proper" ones in that industry.

I meant where the site doesn't register the domain to themselves.

Imagine paying someone for a string of ascii chars that you have no rights over.

I use the `i2pd-tools ./vain` registry.

I just mine my own onion address: karaparawplotu233ux7adtiaqswdthdk6kiqqovgy4ldp2dseijwnad.onion

I know that at the end you're never owning it, sure. But I heard about Njalla taking away people's domains more than some others.

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> go for the ones that don't ask for any KYC upon signup / purcahses

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> go for the ones that don't ask for any KYC upon signup / purchases

"about Njalla taking away people's domains more than some others" <--- sauce? Because njalla is famous for NOT doing that.

onion addresses are nice until you have to interact with the clearnet. Mail, XMPP - all unusable.

k4r4b3y, okay, will search for posts when I get home.

<s​tnby:kernal.eu> Njalla is famous for all the wrong reasons. You would probably be better of with mynymbox

<s​iren:kernal.eu> k4r4b3y: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38987782

@s​iren:kernal.eu yeah that looks fucked

Let's hear njalla's part of the story: zedeus/nitter #1150#issuecomment-1891049573

And that should tie all of this with a bow: "We need to assume that there is no perfect registrar" zedeus/nitter #1150#issuecomment-1910738742

<a​tori_0xbdc3ab4e:matrix.org> Pedersen commitments are what is used to prove the inputs and outputs of the tx are equal, what is the equivalent to prove an input is not double spend?

<b​asses:matrix.org> mynymbox offers anon proxy domain registeration?

<b​asses:matrix.org> never heard an issue with incognet.io, also they are more "free speach" than Njalla

I was a customer of incognet. They were horribly slow with my customer support requests.

<n​ononynous:monero.social> Double spend isnt mitigated by ringsignatures ?

No, I was thinking about other stories, only tangentially heard about this one.

ofrnxmr, have you used only basicswapdex or anything else?

For atomic swaps? I have no use for btc

For fiat? bsx doesnt support fiat. Ive used haveno and localmonero

Ive installed and played with samourai and unstoppableswaps, but never used them because i hold 0 btc and wouldnt increase that unless the btc was gifted to me for free

<n​ononynous:monero.social> reiya.io stopped running their charity project ?

<n​ononynous:monero.social> I just have a blank page

<j​effro256:monero.social> Key images. Every output pubkey has exactly one key image which is necessarily emitted while constructing the ring signature. If you sign from the same output pubkey twice, anyone can see a duplicated key image. The node then checks that all key images from all ring signatures on the chain are unique

<j​effro256:monero.social> good read: web.getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf

Is anyone running public stagenet or testnet explorers? Onion or clearnet

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I have one on stagenet onion but you one want to use it because it’s in a whonix workstation

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Its fucking slow

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I have one on stagenet onion but you wont want to use it because it’s in a whonix workstation

For docs website. Will it be online long term?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Lemme check

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Corrupt LMDB, if you want to wait a few hours then fine

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Resync

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No rush

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 35.md.monerodevs.org/infrastructure/networks/#stagenet

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> xmrchain.net

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> comes with both testnet/stagenet explorer

thanks ofrnxmr

I'll have a look at haveno and localmonero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Localmonero is out of business

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Haveno-reto.com is the only active haveno network at the moment

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yea haveno-reto is the ideal

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yea haveno-reto is the ideal currently

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yea haveno-reto is the ideal fiat -> xmr exchange currently

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I saw another one, I won’t link it though because I don’t want to endorse any but defo more than 1

The problem is... It is not clear where you would take the initial amount needed for any trade (afaik it is like on Bisq there). It is not a problem for me personally but still.

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> xmrbazaar.com in the earn xmr section

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> plenty of options to get 0.11 xmr to be able to trade on haveno

xmrbazaar gets open-sauced wen

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Its not open sauce ?

show me the sauce!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Bbq

mmm

no really, I heard Doug is keeping all the good stuff to himself

\/sarcasm

<3​21bob321:monero.social> People use it and its not open?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Trust me bruh

Stallman disappoint

nihilist, I thought Bazaar was just for selling goods, didn't expect exchanging to also be there) Now hope that people would join in from our region too) I would have joined myself but I am way too anxious already.

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> i have an "earn xmr" offer in there for instance, where i pay monero for well written opsec blogposts

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> which can do the trick to get your first monero in haveno

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> which can do the trick to get your first monero for haveno

Yeah, but that would require skills that are not universal (plus language). I meant I didn't expect regular exchanges for money)

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> i think theres doug that pays monero in exchange for salmon lol

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> (also an offer to earn xmr on xmrbazaar)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Id pay Monero in exchange of salmon

<d​aybreak:nitro.chat> I saw that on xmrbazaar lol

<d​aybreak:nitro.chat> I might sell to you if I ever move to Alaska

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I stay in hispanic america, not going to go in US lol

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> You might be able to import salmon from mexico. But everything south of Mexico doesn’t have a great supply of fresh salmon. Tilapia on the other hand you can get fresh. Unless you don’t care if the salmon is frozen

<n​ononynous:monero.social> From things i learnt:

<n​ononynous:monero.social> Punishing bad trade experience

<n​ononynous:monero.social> Making scam attempts risky for the treat actor

<n​ononynous:monero.social> Avoid denial of services

<n​ononynous:monero.social> Denial of service is for example taking offers of the whole orderbook and not responding to any trade

<n​ononynous:monero.social> If there was no security deposit it would be at no cost, with those we could reward people tricked in a coinlocker campaign