<hbs:matrix.org> Already? reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/FXRw2juqB1

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Saw that on the twit

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> you cant convert xmr1 to xmr either

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Initially it was just frozen for new swaps, "muh prevent north korea dex" but i guess they decided to disable being able to get your money back too 💪

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it's too bad that decentralized platforms dont exist. Only have centralized dexes /s

btw are there decentralized options for like $20-$50 purchases?

I've just heard Haveno's problem being that the minimum sums are very big

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: monero-orderbooks.com

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Basicswap doesnt have that problem 💪

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: Yes

<rbrunner7> How do I get the Wallet API files to compile when building the Monero core software? I tried with setting "option(BUILD_GUI_DEPS "Build GUI dependencies." ON)" in the toplevel CMakeLists.txt file, but either that does not get evaluated, or is altogether the wrong approach ...

<rbrunner7> Ups, wanted this to post in -dev - will repost

ofrnxmr, ah, nice! Not tried, cool to know.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Okay, where do I get the 20-50 worth of shitcoins to then swap on basicswap ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You sell yourself on the corner

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (.. dumb questions get dumb answers, sorry not sorry)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You get em wherever they are sold or earned 🧠

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Edited, I hate when I don't fully type out what I have in mind.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Check the edited message.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You buy them using xmr

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> You still consider it a dumb question ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yea

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Youre asking how to get non-kyc btc (etc). Theres nothing new about that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Sell some product for xmr, btc, ltc, whatever

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or buy some on robosats, bisq, haveno, etc

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Don't all these have the same issue of no low volume trades ?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Not a real answer.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Example: coincards cant offload their xmr on kraken anymore. They can swap their xmr to ltc/btc so they can dump those on kraken instead

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> How do they get xmr? By people buying goods off of them

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: How do you get dollars?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its a very real answer.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Do you expect it to come from the tooth fairy?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I'm not American, I can go exchange it at exchange places here, cash and no kyc.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And whats stopping you from exchanging X currency for abc crypto?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ^ > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or buy some on robosats, bisq, haveno, etc

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: ^

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> No?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Nobody wants to sell you $4 of xmr, if thats what youre asking

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Time is money. why would i waste my time making 40c (10%) on a $4 trade

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> This conversation started because of RetoSwaps large volume trades. I'll make sure to check if bisq or robosats are better.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> retoswap wants 5xmr minimum for a btc<->xmr trade

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Which is high. Thats $2000

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont think fiat has the same massive minimums, but still dont expect $10 fiat trades since high volume on your bank acct is an easy way to get debanked

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And just travelling to pickup the mail (cbm) costs $.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I was thinking $50 - $100 at a time. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Nobody wants to sell you $4 of xmr, if thats what youre asking

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I definitely would prefer an ever lower barrier of entry like $20 or so. That's how I started last year, thanks to dfx.Swiss (rip). I also read that LocalMonero was way better in this regard.

<plowsof:matrix.org> in europe , if yo ufind just one bottle/can you can exchange it for cash (25 cent) without kyc

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Localmonero had corporate sellers on it doing $50+ swaps

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Localmonero had better protection for sellers, since scammers could lose their rep etc.

<plowsof:matrix.org> dfs .swiss rip because they require kyc now?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Yes.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno has no rep, so u can create a new burner acct and send stolen funds repeatedly and ruin a lot of sellers bank accounts. Dealing with scum/scammers costs money, and causes permanant damage

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Unless you do cbm or f2f. Bith of which im not doing for less than 1k

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Would've thought the 2way deposit system alleviates some of this.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Im not meeting 20 strange internet ppl per day in alleyways for $50

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Not even close. all it takes is 1 or 2 fraud reports against your bank acct to get debanked

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And those reports come long after the trade is compelted

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> On LM, i only allowed 1 trade within the first week, and a max of like $10.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the following trades had to come from the same account or name as the first. This is the only way to see that the sender isnt emptying 90y/o IRS scammed grandmas bank acct

<plowsof:matrix.org> ofrnxmr dont forget about people putting things in the payment reference that your bank will ask questions about😆

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If it didnt come from same name, instantly reported them and their high rep acct would be banned

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> What prevents something like LM to come out again if it worked well ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> despite my due diligence, i had a bank ban me for life from them and all of their subsidiaries and parent companies banks and products

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And this happened like a year after LM shut down

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> only safe way to trade for cash imo, is f2f or cbm

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or like in mexico, depositing to other persons bank acct at atm or at teller

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org: So many people used to do that. Put localbitcoin in the scampal payment reason..

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Electronic transfers are an easy way to get rekt

<plowsof:matrix.org> also have to protect yourself from other sellers - there was a reddit thread where someone asked a top seller for advice on LM - he was told to add "darknet" to his description to increase trades -> got himself banned 😂 so other sellers will actively target you

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Lmfao

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah, LM has a zero tolerance policy for DNM related activity

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: Currency exchange traders are some of the worst kinds of people. No surprised there.

br-m: <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You get em wherever they are sold or earned <- weird answer where "where are they sold/earned" was the whole question

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Make code

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Get paid

I also don't know what are the min trade amounts on Bisq

retoswap wants 5xmr minimum for a btc<->xmr trade <- wtf that's more than my entire savings

I was thinking $50 - $100 at a time <- same

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-orderbooks.com << you can see the mininums here

ravfx, this sounds like "stop being poor bruh" (even though I'm far from poor yet still would struggle with THAT amount)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not a rewuirement, its just how retoswap makers roll

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The minimum required on retoswap is like 0.05xmr, but under 3% or so, the best is like 4xmr

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: I think the LXQT team was looking for some talent for some upgrades, could use Monero community funding

nice

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> for smaller amounts it might be worth using "riskier" exchanges that are more centralized that accept lower amounts

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I like the continuous assumptions here that everyone is either an old cryptobro who should know where to get shitcoins no kyc because "there's nothing new about that", or a programmer who should seek work to somehow get paid in shitcoin or XMR.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: I will never do kyc to third parties. Not for monero not for anything.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Dont forget those who love products and good GUIs

Back in my very naive youth... I remember being annoyed enough at the account opening reqs I told the bank employee in the branch they could use public key crypto, even face to face, to make sure they dealt with the right person, and wouldn't need this less secure paperwork shit. I was such a sweet summer geek back then. Sniff.

Still thinking they were looking out for us...

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: well there are services claiming different amounts of no kyc guarentees everything has different risks and you'll better double tripple check out their policies before doing a trade on anything recommend by anyone but I'm sure you'll find something

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: I think I am the crossroads of naive youth and whatever comes next.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: I like to think the same thing, makes the world a nicer place to believe that.

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: just keep asking don't let people like that put you down :)

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> moneromooo: Probably got put on a watchlist ever since...

<hbs:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: what is the issue with buying XMR with KYC? The selling party would just know you bought some (and the amount), nothing more beyond that

Yeah, but honestly I was already on some anyway so...

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: those dont exsist

or a programmer who should seek work to somehow get paid in shitcoin or XMR.<- also in some jurisdictions being paid in crypto is illegal. Like, this is not very enforceable if you are careful, but that's a sword over your head.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: The butchers slaughterhouse list?

The more pressing concern is the inability to code anything but simple utilities in Python tho

<notsetvin:matrix.org> knowing python is equal to being someone who can transform reality today

You betcha. Forever thankful for the PETA activist who opened the gate for me. I now wear black and white stripes so everyone thinks I'm a zebra. Cow not found ever since.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Just seems like it's prohibitively difficult for one to dip their toes in Monero now. Either be a suspicious whale selling 50btc on RetoSwap, or jump into bullshit hoops and maybe then you can get your hands on a low amount of XMR without kyc.

what is the issue with buying XMR with KYC? <- The issue is there being definitive proof that you bought crypto. People have been kidnapped to be extorted based on KYC data. Also doing this mighe get illegal and you might be punished retroactively ;/

BlueyHealer: how about... someone gives you crypto and pay in work ? Would that work ? Is being paid in work also illegal ?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: someone might try to drug you with LSD in your sleep, if they figure out you bought XMR

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @hbs:matrix.org: Like I said, it's beyond Monero. I know pragmatically it doesn't matter after the trade, I just won't ever do kyc to anything that's not a bank (until I one day go off the grid, then I won't even put up with banks).

Oh. Free drugs ?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: cant complain, can you

<notsetvin:matrix.org> that's what we call a high value monero transaction

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cost a lot more than the $5 option, that's for sure.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @notsetvin:matrix.org: What if I prefer wrenches over psychedelics ?

ofrnxmr: Maybe that's the problem in Haveno (only extremely high minimums)

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Oh I misunderstood your goal. But you are saying you already have a kyc bank? You mean a local bank you just walked in and made an account? I can understand if you don't want your data within one of those kyc companies. If that is the case yes it might be hard to get smaller amounts on those trading sites that offer bank transfers.

There are no long-term traders like in LocalMonero

Long-term traders tend to have small minimums because they can still make profit over many transactions

<hbs:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: MtPelerin in Switzerland does their KYC themselves, no third party

In Haveno, every trader is considered ephemeral, so minimums are super high in order to be profitable

are raised super high*

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Unless I don't want to engage with society at large, yes I had to have a bank account.

I'd really like the concept of a list of traders you can trust to be there 24/7 like LocalMonero was

br-m: <notsetvin:matrix.org> knowing python is equal to being someone who can transform reality today <- wat

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Yes, kyc intermediaries are absolutely out of the question. I consider the bank itself a kyc participant since they have all the info in the world too.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I will make sure to note your preference, in case any opportunities you might be interested in pop up.

Yeah, I'd be concerned not about the bank knowing where the crypto was spent, but that the person has purchased some crypto at all at one point.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: What if there is not a man in the middle, but a whole team.

?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> 😏

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Hm sorry yes there are limited options for you at the moment. Maybe there is a bank in your country where you can walk in and make an account that also offers crypto that might be in your comfort zone. Otherwise you'll have to befriend that one other monero user in your town and give him cash for monero.

not translate from cryptic to human, including your first statement I questioned)

Honestly the chances of buying Monero from CEXs in the future is quite slim these days

there is a bank in your country where you can walk in and make an account that also offers crypto that might be in your comfort zone <- how is that different from KYC?

As more and more governments start to ramp up and ban Monero

<notsetvin:matrix.org> gosh cryptonote enjoyers are cryptic? how?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: I think I actually can get my hands on those USD casino chips from local shops here. My question was also for like everyone else in other countries as well who won't be as lucky to have those.

Cindy, I am not even talking XMR, just anything you'd swap into it.

Oh

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Cindy: as long as they accept any other shitcoin I'm happy to sell it on their site after buying it with moneor

notsevin, it's one thing to be into privacy and the other to obscure what you want to say *in a conversation*

Honestly I was only ever lucky once in Haveno

pyratevevo, and are those chips sellable for any coin?

Found an exchange with a small minimum

I don't think I'll ever will be that lucky now that minimums are like thousands of dollars

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> The other big problem with the only-large-volume trades is it fucks people in less rich countries. Where $50 for you might not seem worth a Monero trade for, someone else sees it as a lot of money, because it is where they live, and they don't have to be poor for that to be the case.

Who even CAN trade like this? I am middle-class and I don't even HAVE this much in total!

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: The chips I'm referring to are Tether.

Won't exchanges like fixedfloat or whatever work for kyc-less small-ish amounts ?

It's like a few median salaries

i have thousands of xmr

Or another if that one's gone.

plenty of people can

imagine taking out a loan to buy XMR that you can't even all use up because it's such a truckload

<notsetvin:matrix.org> btw can anyone tell me about that corner where you can earn XMR

Honestly, haveno kinda fucked up

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I wouldn't worry about them I'm very sure they'll find profitable opportunities in their countries that monero for the first time allows them to participate in

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: are you interested in some of my unique talents?

The whole platform is designed for ephemeral trades

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Fraud is super popular and profitable!

You're supposed to leave your computer on the WHOLE TIME

for your trade to continue to be advertised

So there is no sense of longevity

Like, Bisq has a lite version for smaller trades without having prior BTC, I wonder if Haveno could get that too

my feather balance

rn

Cindy: You're supposed to leave your computer on the WHOLE TIME <- can this be ran as a daemon on, like, a Raspberry Pi?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Most of the people who are "Getting rich" trading XMR are just wash trading

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Does inline replies not work for folks on the IRC side ? I can't make which message is meant to reply to which.

no

<notsetvin:matrix.org> yes raspberry pi is super popular choice for running nodes

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Well I would worry about them, because I live in one.

get a laptop and an ecoflow

to keep it on

indefinitely

BlueyHealer: Nobody is gonna run a computer 24/7

my trades stay advertised even through power outages, and i have a generator

i have like

10 computers running 24/7

Especially if they're tech-illiterate

in my house

I would not want a device with a battery to be permanently on

<notsetvin:matrix.org> yeah basically anything

so your "nobody" does not include me

Haveno lost the veteran traders from LocalMonero because of this

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: Only North German aldi investors would do that

Cindy: BlueyHealer: Nobody is gonna run a computer 24/7 <- a lot of selfhosters do. I don't leave mine overnight, but for most of the day I do, even if it's mostly just seeding torrents.

They expect to put a trade and wait

thats not really true

<notsetvin:matrix.org> bro once the chain is synced it uses almost no cpu. You guys are crazy.

localmonero was dead

because binance created a peer to peer thing

it took the whole market

it killed localbitcoin too

localbitcoins went out of business permanently

Cindy, for context - is this a GUI and/or resource-intensive app? I wonder if this can be ran on a regular homeserver SBC

because of binances p2p exchange

BlueyHealer: Haveno can be ran as a daemon

Ah, nice!

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Also one of the promises of Monero/crypto is unrestricted financial freedom everywhere. So I would very much prefer if even countries with inflated currencies are considered. I don't like the concept that I shouldn't worry about them like they don't yet deserve digital cash.

But really, how many traders want to deal with this vs. putting up a trade and waiting for an email notification

me

You're the exception

But I agree having to have it always-on is a bar for entry, because I am still not comfortable leaving my RPi on *overnight*, even if I know it's alright.

okay well apaprently not

because there are counterparties for my trades

generally always

i cant trade with myself

<Cindy> Nobody is gonna run a computer 24/7 <<>> I am also exceptional, always on anyway

Guys, you do realize what I mean by "nobody"

but never used haveno

it doesnt have to be for everybody

I'm not talking about tech peoppe

it has to give the possibility

I am somebody!!

to those who have a commercial need for it

BTW for node syncing - can you just do the resource-intensive part on your PC and then move it to a weak SBC?

I'm talking about people who literally just want to put a trade up and wait in the meantime

Cindy: <3

if you have the comemrcial need for a decentralized exchange, you will be willing to leave your pc on

because its probably like

a lot of money

and important logistics for you

as it is for me, as i hold over 10k monero and a lot more value in bitcoin and dont use any centralized exchange

And if it's not a commercial need but just wanting to buy some XMR to pay for your VPN?

if you wanna do 10bux and have convienence

go to orangefren.com

I just wanna buy 10 bucks of Monero

And not end up paying some guy a minimum of 10,000 dollars to get 10 bucks

Makes no sense

That's like if I wanted to buy a TV, I have to buy a bulk of it from the manufacturer

I'd expect about 50 min tbh

!tip Cindy .02457 monero

anyways something that accommodated small retail transactions

uhhh

oh yeah

go use eigenwallet maybe?

That is exactly what a lot of people need

if you dont want centralization

i think you can trivially do small amounts trustless and decentralized

with eigenwallet atomic swaps

Chicken-egg problem

that's not with fiat it seems tho

Cindy, yes exactly

I mean how are you gonna get the <random-shitcoin /> if you just have fiat

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Oh I'm sorry to hear that. You are going to face issues unique to your country. But I'm sure most of them can be solved feel free to ask no matter what people say.

I don't like the concept that I shouldn't worry about them like they don't yet deserve digital cash <- YES

12:07 < Cindy> I mean how are you gonna get the <random-shitcoin /> if you just have fiat

you could offer goods and services in exchange for the currency

rather than exchanging for it if your country bans fiat

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> xmrbazaar

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Same like drugs. Find yourself a dealer

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Ironically it is because of living in such country that I can go up in some shop and straight up exchange fiat for Tether.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> For now something like Trocador now completes the swap part and solves the issue here. But I would've preferred the extra mile and completely sidestep CEXes if it was possible with DEXes..

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> #moneroswap:matrix.org

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> So youre here asking rhetorical questions

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You can acquire usdt but youre pretending that you cant get xmr using the usdt?

We should have haveno lite

yeah just go to orangefren.com or wagyu or w/e and exchange

cindy it is called eigenwallet

Place for low-volume trades

i already directed you to it

weev_: with fiat

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Wagyu rugged, didnt they

are you in the EU?

did they? lol

Cindy: We should have haveno lite <- Yeah, really wondering if that's coming! Bisq got that after all.

yep rugged

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If you have ltc or btc, you can do low volume trades on basicswap

fluffypony curse

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Dont be evasive! Sit right there while I violate your rights and abuse you!

orangefren has been super reliable for me for quick swaps from weird shitcoins

<notsetvin:matrix.org> weev_: that curse is on you

into xmr

Although idk whether the min amounts on Bisq2 are sane.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I've never done it and don't know the details, but supposedly I can just do that, yeah.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Rhetorical questions ? I suppose.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> But I don't like usdt one bit, read that that shit get frozen just like that.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^

nobody is freezing $10 worth of tether

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> nioc: Again, principally I don't want nothing to do with that shit.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and youre only holding it for what, 5mins?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> nioc: maybe if it was my $10 in tether

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Youre using dollars, what diff does it make?

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Oh well if you can do that go do that. Sounds to me like the solution to your problem no? Fiat -> usdt ->monero? > <@pyratevevo:matrix.org> Ironically it is because of living in such country that I can go up in some shop and straight up exchange fiat for Tether.

tbh $10 is still a lot compared to a typical student stipend

BlueyHealer: It isn't called Bisq Lite BTW, It's just called Bisq Easy

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont care if ita doge, shib, or fartcoin. Its just a condom to get into xmr

<intr:unredacted.org> use dai if nothing else

Cindy, ah, ok. I only really remembered Bisq2

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: But they dont want to use usdt, they want to use some other shitcoin

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @intr:unredacted.org: Pyrate cant buy dai at the corner store. They can buy usdt

btw it's kinda sad how little the student stipends are. I recall a lot of them being <=$30 a month.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And dai is just glorified usdt

<intr:unredacted.org> it is glorified usdt but it can't be le heckin frozen

First time hearing about dai

<intr:unredacted.org> so

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Dai is backed by what.. usdt, usdc, and eth? Lmao

<intr:unredacted.org> just usdt and usdc I believe

<intr:unredacted.org> but it works so /shrug

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The underlying can be frozen > <@intr:unredacted.org> it is glorified usdt but it can't be le heckin frozen

<notsetvin:matrix.org> it can be hacked and depegged tho lol > <@intr:unredacted.org> it is glorified usdt but it can't be le heckin frozen

It's honestly a shame stuff are like this, because Monero would benefit a lot from a place where you can buy it in small volumes

btw what are the concerns of ust compared to, say, btc/ltc?

Rather than all at once in bulk

<intr:unredacted.org> @notsetvin:matrix.org: but it's just a condom to get muh nero

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Yeah that's the plan. In the interest of not wanting to share personal details, I'll just say that I also can buy things online, so I would like to be able to spend my USD/euro/GBP for Monero, irrespective of what I can do with my local currency which is not one of the above.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: Usdt can be frozen / deleted. Its a centralizes token

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Oh well that's too bad then. I'm 100% not a fan of usdt but if I had a shop I can walk in no kyc and exchange cash to then trade for monero and back to cash again I would make use of it. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But they dont want to use usdt, they want to use some other shitcoin

<notsetvin:matrix.org> at some point if you cant trust a bank you might have bigger issues that monero usage will not solve

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Isn't Monero the condom ? That's what drug users think.

Like seriously how can people ever try out Monero, let alone form a proper opinion of it if they have to spend thousands of dollars to get it

ofrnxmr, ah, ok. And does the company hosting it do it at random? Idk how common it is.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Im not a fan of any of these other shitchains, i still use them to get into monero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: No

<notsetvin:matrix.org> condoms are see through BTW :)

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> If I could choose, I would go litecoin. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But they dont want to use usdt, they want to use some other shitcoin

<intr:unredacted.org> @notsetvin:matrix.org: you have a trained eye, huh :^)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: No, they do it when authorities tell them that someone got hacked or robbed for many millions of usdt

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @intr:unredacted.org: Maybe it was my local education system?

Ah, so not a concern for your $30?

<intr:unredacted.org> ah, over here they do it from behind

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Cindy: I've been using monero for 10 years now from small to big amounts no issues

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @intr:unredacted.org: big fan of front ends over here

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Right. Nobody is freezing your $30

<intr:unredacted.org> lmao

i am so happy to have never seen a condom and hope it continues this way

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ive never seem a condom either 🧠

assholeorangecat: I'm talking about new users

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @intr:unredacted.org: now I know why some people like basketball so much

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Debanking is real. I know someone who suddenly got his bank account closed after 30 years. No reasons were given, they didn't even email the closure, it was sent by mail while the person was abroad. > <@notsetvin:matrix.org> at some point if you cant trust a bank you might have bigger issues that monero usage will not solve

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> tmi

Specifically those who think of "scam" when they think of crypto

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: pig butchering is real too, I might know someone who was pig butchered

From what I've seen, there are cash exchangers around (Moscow City towers are often cited as the place with a lot). But idk just how big the minimums are there. There would apparently be a crackdown but I bet they'd somehow find a way to continue existing.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Wasnt me, but i was debanked as well (by 1 bank & its related entities)

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Cindy: hmm not sure what you mean they can always try testnet? But that's not what you mean I think?

Debanking is real. I know someone who suddenly got his bank account closed after 30 years. <- here crypto p2p is apparently a common reason for this

<notsetvin:matrix.org> not hard to debank someone :)

assholeorangecat: Like buy a small amount in mainnet to try it out in real services

So they can form an opinion of Monero

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @notsetvin:matrix.org: I'm purposely using vague terms like "I know someone" instead of actually sharing the connection.

It can be like 50 dollars or so

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: same

<notsetvin:matrix.org> There are benefits to learning art, communication and sociology.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> not everything in life is a coding issue

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Cindy: I know sites that accept like 25$ how much lower do you need I'm sure we can find something

What are those sites

What was the art comment replying to?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Now imagine if that happened while you were abroad and the fuckers didn't let you know about it, like they normally would through the app or through email. Fuck banks.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: thats my major in school! Art and computer science ;)

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Cindy: I mean crypto exchanges I'm assuming you have a way to get in and out of crypto?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Does art reflect life, or is it life that is reflected by art?

Oh I don't mean CEXs

I mean DEXs

<notsetvin:matrix.org> not many DEXs out there, take a lot of work to program

<notsetvin:matrix.org> very easy to start a CEX

Or some way to coordinate trades between veteran traders

small-volume trades*

<notsetvin:matrix.org> use CEX for small amounts of xmr

<notsetvin:matrix.org> just use a CEX

Not everyone can use CEX

I can't use it

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Not all things in life are bad when they are centralized. For example, intelligence is super powerful when you centralized it.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: nonkyc exchange

Like what?

TradeOrge is dead

<notsetvin:matrix.org> that is the name of the exchange

And you have to be worried if they are a scam or not

Even if you can, the point is that they're all KYC and thus leaving a record that you have at some point bought crypto!

No, TradeOrge is dead

in some cases that could be worrisome

<notsetvin:matrix.org> its a xeggex clone

Any exchanges pretending to be them are a scam

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: just enjoy the product

<notsetvin:matrix.org> the brain power in this chat is just overwhelming

<notsetvin:matrix.org> nonkyc.io

BlueyHealer: Well yeah

<notsetvin:matrix.org> you're welcome....

<notsetvin:matrix.org> based on sychelles.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Want to earn XMR? Stop whining and fork a coin.

Lol

You can make a non-KYC swap service. Those are dime-a-dozen

I have yet to see a non-KYC fiat trade service like TradeOrge

<notsetvin:matrix.org> How did this entire community forget how this works? Complacency? Arrogance? Laziness? combination of all three?

<pw:xmr.mx> or eliminating you young ones still at school > <BlueyHealer> RavFX, this sounds like "stop being poor bruh" (even though I'm far from poor yet still would struggle with THAT amount)

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: You dont want solutions, I think you just enjoy complaining?

br-m: <notsetvin:matrix.org> Want to earn XMR? Stop whining and fork a coin. <- That's beyond the absolute majority of even professional developers. Also, how tf would that help earning anything? Just a repo of code does nothing on its own.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> @pw:xmr.mx: They are doing great at that lately

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> > <Cindy> I mean DEXs

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> I think pure dex's there are only the atomic swap services rn so yes that might be hard for smaller amounts as liquidity is low at this time. It should improve over time. I'm gonna get hate for saying this and I have yet to try that site myself but wagyu.xyz which afaik I'd call a centralized "dex" and is apperently a one pers [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/oZ764YELdjR5YVRw ]

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: 🤪

Yeah, after forking, you need to compile. Sounds like... work...

wdym by that?

notsetvin: You have completely misunderstood what I was asking

moneromoo, and then what?

You are just throwing shit at the wall and hoping I say yes

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: gosh, why does making money always take work

So you fork something, you run a node. Nobody recognizes that.

and then you'll be expected to work again since you've done it once. Can't see any good coming from that...

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: Average Sisyphus simulation enjoyer

but if I were to use my imagination, I guess you'd then need to run the binary after compiling ?

Monero thrives on adoption

<notsetvin:matrix.org> btw I love simulation games, I enjoy keeping the simulations running as long as possible

Yeah, how would forking help at all?

and for what?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> moneromooo: I always get stuck at the magic number part

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: gosh, I guess the world will never know

You are welcome to keep gatekeeping

Why did you say that if you yourself didn't know what you meant? Are you drunk?

The governments love to see that

<notsetvin:matrix.org> I guess Sisyphus isn't a myth! I might know him!

As your coin becomes irrelevant

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: I already explained it.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> I can't see any more good coming from me attempting to educate, based on how poorly the introduction went. I will rather save my life force for people who are paying attention, sorry.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> I consider myself a very vigilant and fair gatekeeper. I rarely leave my post :)

<notsetvin:matrix.org> need to keep the simulations running clean

ignoring cindy, low-effort troll

notsevin, you are speaking in riddles tho

<notsetvin:matrix.org> time for some beer and opencl drivers

weev_: I'm just joking lol

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: riddles are good for my long term health

And acting as ignorant as notsetvin

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> I was assuming you had crypto on and offramp. Maybe you have the option like pyro to buy in a local shop with cash? > <Cindy> I can't use it

<notsetvin:matrix.org> being ignorant is good, asking questions is how people learn. Staying silence is how fools remain in their place

where am I and how did I get here?

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Those who already believe they know everything, have troubles ahead.

Apparently I'm a low-effort troll now for taking the piss

nioc: you're ignorant! and you did not remain silent! You are the best amongst us!

Cat knows everything, I just follow her lead

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: thats what being a low effort troll is

<notsetvin:matrix.org> nioc: I always feed the cats

notsetvin: Your answers are not making it very easy for me to decide what to answer

<notsetvin:matrix.org> response from low effort trolls is null data

Anyway, any way to trade small volumes of fiat for XMR in a DEX?

Or at least any proposal?

You said something cryptic about Python too, I would really like an explanation

All the answers I got relied on me having crypto from some other place

Which just sounds like a chicken-egg problem

<notsetvin:matrix.org> who is paying a programmer to code a system to move $30 in xmr

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: hehehehe what is so ccryptic about Python, its a great coding language. So powerful!

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Gosh you can do some amazing things with python, that is for sure

<notsetvin:matrix.org> 🐍

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Maybe it's not a man in the middle, but a nest of snakes?

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> > <Cindy> Anyway, any way to trade small volumes of fiat for XMR in a DEX?

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> as I said afaik I think some of the mentioned p2p offer fiat bank transfers but not in the amounts you are looking for. If you want cash to monero you need to maybe look for local crypto atms that offer no kyc on lower amounts or local shops that offer it like in pyro's case. If you are cofortable with menitoning in what country you are people that might be from there have a better answer for you.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Nobody here wants to cut the head off any snakes, right? Pythons may not like that.

assholeorangecat: Yeah those sound like good options

<notsetvin:matrix.org> You know, pythons do not have any venom. It's not a quick death. A python is so large that it can entirely surround you without you even realizing it. Then it slowly constricts, until you cannot breathe.

<intr:unredacted.org> @notsetvin:matrix.org: it's reptilist

I don't really know any crypto ATMs (nor am I comfortable saying where I am)

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Then the Python has the power to completely consume you, after it has disabled your ability to do anything.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Gosh if you think the Python is scary, just wait until you know what Santa can do.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> What color is Santa's jolly hat? They call him nick right? Saberhagen? Gosh

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Oh wow you're telling me that cookies, which santa loves fresh ones, are not just things you bake in the oven? You mean my phone and everything I do online is baking fresh cookies for santa? All day?

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Cindy: you don't know any or have you not looked yet? you might be better of trying do some of your own research for your specific country if you are not comfortable sharing locations. It's just really hard for someone to help you if your goals and situation are not clear.

Yeah sorry

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Gosh, no wonder santa is always so busy with that list of his.

I'll do my own research

Thanks

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Turns out guys with big bellies can still take your cookies!

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Jolly old saint nick! :)

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Gosh he has so many elves too, so overpowered

<notsetvin:matrix.org> im stuck trying to trade $30 in XMR with gnomes at the neutral trading post

<notsetvin:matrix.org> what does an ork warlock have to do to get a summoning spell around here

Try not to get an arrow in the knee

<notsetvin:matrix.org> I must have skipped all the starter quests and went straight to the auction houe

br-m: <notsetvin:matrix.org> What color is Santa's jolly hat? They call him nick right? Saberhagen? Gosh <- ehy do you say this randomly? This makes no sense in context as it is seemingly unrelated to anything

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Cindy: Vampires must feed if they want to reduce their fear rating

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: TOTALLY not relevant to anything.

why are you talking about random gantasy out of nowhere

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Nobody would be out here, wearing Red Hats or something.

what

Sir, this is a Wendy's

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> good luck if you don't find anything yourself it might be worth asking ai I found some very specific local services I couldn't find using a normal search engine need to go now bye > <Cindy> I'll do my own research

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: you asked me to explain the context behind python

This seems like another riddle, please explain literally

<notsetvin:matrix.org> You are getting what you requested.

I think that's a llm gone a bit off the handle.

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: You're exactly right.

How tf is this related to Python coding?!

BlueyHealer: I'm betting recursive reasoning

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Some hats are black , some are red

<notsetvin:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Good question!

i think banhammer remembered setvin is evading

<notsetvin:matrix.org> Maybe santa knows how to use Python?

Oh wow

<notsetvin:matrix.org> plowsof: banhammer was generous today

This is what I get for not being in #monero for a few months

A new ban evader! Yay

<notsetvin:matrix.org> even the banhammer knows how important it is for everyone to understand how santa works

<notsetvin:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/gsUKAYOSMOerxpXYKiPZTlta.png (image.png)

what tf are you talking about

What does Santa have to do with anything here, you have not explained

What channel is this supposed to be by the way?

I can't see the tab rn, is it -offtopic?

#monero

Oh

Ohhh.... Oh

lol

l'Ho-ho-hol.

I thought this was offtopic lol

I messed up lol

lol

<xmrvcc:matrix.org> Hey everyone 👋 We run xmrvcc.com — a no-KYC store where you can spend XMR on gift cards, prepaid cards and virtual credit cards. Happy to answer any questions!

<hbs:matrix.org> MoneroSwap aims at allowing tiny offers, as low as 0.0001 XMR > <Cindy> Anyway, any way to trade small volumes of fiat for XMR in a DEX?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The fee can be more than that tho

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 0.00012 is currently the "normal" tier fee (& should be more with fcmp)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 0.001 is basicswap's minimum, previously 0.00001, but people were essentially burning funds because theyd get stuck in a locked address

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And to be able to "reliably" have funds confirmed, should use "unimportant" fee tier, but imo should use auto

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Shouldn't*

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> More by how much ? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 0.00012 is currently the "normal" tier fee (& should be more with fcmp)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 2x maybe, i dont remember

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> For 9 million times the anonymity set ? I'll take it.