<t​hegoodlabel:matrix.org> tx_extra.h "struct tx_extra_mysterious_minergate"

<t​hegoodlabel:matrix.org> please pardon my ignorance but why is this still in the code????

<t​hegoodlabel:matrix.org> i was under the impression minergate was "blacklisted" not sure why this is still in the codebase

<t​amlotamlugufum:matrix.org> 2935-138-199-60-14.ngrok-free.app

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> 26 sessions, DO NOT CLICK

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> I'll see what it is

<b​asses:matrix.org> spam

<t​amlotamlugufum:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/qNglgLTKTLIIiYsTTmTAerYQ

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> plowsof:

matrix is loading, please hold

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Thanks plowsof

<b​asses:matrix.org> what is the most secure browser and messenger tho?

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Most secure browser? One that doesn't run javascript

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> That will remove 99.9% of security holes

One that connects to 127.0.0.1 only

<t​amlotamlugufum:matrix.org> secure browser: tor browser, secure messanger: signal

<t​amlotamlugufum:matrix.org> secure browser: tor browser, secure messenger: signal

<b​asses:matrix.org> wrong signal, it is simplex

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Lol, shill for the centralized KYC service

<b​asses:matrix.org> and opsec traching is a scam

<b​asses:matrix.org> and opsec teaching is a scam

<t​amlotamlugufum:matrix.org> how??

<b​asses:matrix.org> it differs for everyone

<b​asses:matrix.org> you build it yourself depending on ... why I'm giving you ideas lmao

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Waiting for a second audit of simplex but it is 'best' AFAIK

<b​asses:matrix.org> basically, you build your opsec by outlining your threat model and attack vectors

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> That is the first thing

<b​asses:matrix.org> it will never be the same for other people

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Page says 'from being caught', assuming that privacy/security -> criminality

<b​asses:matrix.org> their opsec ain't great lmao, imagine giving course to criminals with that kind of opsec

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> nigga I got banned for "scam"

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> how did I scam?

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> do you have proof I scammed?

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> ofc not lmaoo

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> course isn't designed for criminals

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> it's designed for security and ethical hackers

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> it's not blackhat hacking or criminal activity

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> I didn't scam

<b​asses:matrix.org> plowsof

<b​asses:matrix.org> fuck off, no one cares

<b​asses:matrix.org> this is not related to monero

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> you are all scammers

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck you recanman rando

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Ouch, I haven't done much

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck you scamkmer

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> scammer

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> We are here to discuss Monero/currency, not here to sell/buy your courses

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> I won't say much else other than that

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> well I'm not here to be scammed by you

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck you scammer

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck scammers

<s​exygndrfijuh:nope.chat> rando: fuck you

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lesson 1: how to deal with adversity ^

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Fck free zone

<a​aa:nope.chat> hey how did i scam

<a​aa:nope.chat> why did you ban me for scam

<a​aa:nope.chat> what proof have you got that I scammed?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cause we all live in our parents basements

<a​aa:nope.chat> plowsof: I'm teaching people opsec, security and programming and you call that a scam

<a​aa:nope.chat> i'm trying to teach people

opsec course leader sharing a desktop screenshot with identifiable information = scam.. no introduction, just pasting an offtopic link = offtopic/spam

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<a​aa:nope.chat> nigger

<c​t:xmr.mx> oh yes you looks like a professional opsec specialist lmao

<a​mmortel:monero.social> Maybe he's just pretending and he's not actually a nigger...

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> his swears actually manage to increase fractal memory usage by 100 MB

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> gj

<p​reland:matrix.org> He’s obtained a certification in cybersecurity from the Komputer Kybersecurity Kollege

<m​athiuscov:matrix.org> I dont get what the endgame was here really

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I imagine you follow the monero research channel more closely than I do.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Has any there figured out how to create either a constant space or logarithmic space folding block chain. Where the chain itself can be used to prove transactions and balances are valid but only the owner of a wallet has to store the transactions made from or to that wallet. Or atleast the chain stores global transaction info but grows logarithmically with respect to the number of transactions.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I imagine you follow the monero research channel more closely than I do.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Has any there figured out how to create either a constant space or logarithmic space folding block chain? Where the chain itself can be used to prove transactions and balances are valid but only the owner of a wallet has to store the transactions made from or to that wallet. Or atleast the chain stores global transaction info but grows logarithmically with respect to the number of transactions.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I imagine you follow the monero research channel more closely than I do.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Has any there figured out how to create either a constant space or logarithmic space folding block chain? Where the chain itself can be used to prove transactions and balances are valid but only the owner of a wallet has to store the transactions made from or to that wallet. Or atleast the chain stores global transaction info but grows logarithmically with respect to the number of transactions.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Idk about logarithmic space, but only solution I heard for constant space is zk recursive proof. Which hasn't been explored by MRL since we don't need one at the moment, it is also in contradiction with monero spirit of being able to spend your monero back to genesis. I don't think the idea of folding blockchain while keeping transactions informations have been quoted however.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> hardhatter: AFAIK, this type of blockchain structure is already in production on Mina for example. But if the user loses their wallet data, they have lost their coins even if they have a seed phrase. Is that an acceptable tradeoff?

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> For scalability I absolutely think so. It’s a necessary trade off I think. Burdening the user to back up their data is a small price to pay for a network that doesn’t break at large scales

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> In fact I think this is a high priority feature. And should be worked on heavily after fcmps are done

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I might even be willing to do the work for this. I’ll take a look at Mina to see if it has more pitfalls

<r​ucknium:monero.social> tx recipients probably need to be online at the time txs are sent, too. I'm not sure about that.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Not to mention the essential protection from large adversaries that seek to bloat the network not only to make it unusable but also to prevent the average person from being able to run their own node

<r​ucknium:monero.social> This would be moving wallet recovery backward to pre-BIP-39

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> There might be a way around that I can of but, I also that even if there wasn’t thats not actually a serious problem because the sender then has the responsibility to store that transaction data to provide the recipient. If the sender doesn’t do so then it’s his own problem. It’s his loss. The recipient doesn’t have to accept an exchange if he never got proof of payment.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> But like I said I think there’s a way around problem anyway

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> There might be a way around that I can of but, I also think that even if there wasn’t thats not actually a serious problem because the sender then has the responsibility to store that transaction data to provide the recipient. If the sender doesn’t do so then it’s his own problem. It’s his loss. The recipient doesn’t have to accept an exchange if he never got proof of payment.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> But like I said I think there’s a way around problem anyway

<r​ucknium:monero.social> There would be no way to memorize your wallet seed phrase for recovery. If you are in a dangerous situation where the only safe place is your brain.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> While blockchain folding isn't perfect, a scenario where part of nodes have a folding blockchain and the rest have full or pruned blockchain might be possible

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Tho it ask the question of are we going to end up in an eth situation with archive nodes

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I genuinely believe this is a relatively less important issue than the viability to the network itself. That amounts to a UX problem that’s manageable

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The ideal is for all people to have a copy of the blockchain. hardhatter if you are really determined, you can implement this scheme by yourself, and make it works with the rest of the network

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I genuinely believe this is a relatively less important issue than the viability of the network itself. That amounts to a UX problem that’s manageable

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The network is so viable that an unpruned Monero node take 2/3rd the space of the 2024 Call of Duty game. Monero txs now pay for their own storage space on the network with about 20,000 nodes. You can do the mathematics.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> One 1TB SATA SSD = 1 XMR. It costs one piconero to store one byte on a 1 TB SATA SSD. Minimum tx fee is 20,000 piconeros. The number of nodes on the network is estimated at 20,000.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> 😎

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Okay so listen. It’s likely I could formally prove that it’s not possible if I had the time to do that. With the only exception being compressing the whole blockchain. And technically that is possible however that compression algorithm is my personal IP that I’m willing to share.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> There is another compression algorithm that I am willing to share that would hypothetically work but it’s much less scalable too costly for the average person’s hardware

<p​rancing389:matrix.org> bastyon.com/networkr0?s=ba658d453c7…=PR39WqQZoVzC8KXu5xALSeyzY7JZkKPRwK

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Okay so listen. It’s likely I could formally prove that it’s not possible if I had the time to do that. With the only exception being compressing the whole blockchain. And technically that is possible however that compression algorithm is my personal IP that I’m willing not to share.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> There is another compression algorithm that I am willing to share that would hypothetically work but it’s much less scalable too costly for the average person’s hardware

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Okay so listen. It’s likely I could formally prove that it’s not possible if I had the time to do that. With the only exception being compressing the whole blockchain. And technically that is possible however that compression algorithm is my personal IP that I’m willing not to share.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> There is another compression algorithm that I am willing to share that would hypothetically work but it’s much less scalable too costly for the average person’s hardware (edited)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Blockchain data isn't very compressible because it's mostly random data like cryptographic keys.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> It’s compressible. I know is from empirical evidence that from applications I use in practice. It’s a misconception that led people to believe that you can’t compress this data efficiently. It’s just less trivial to develop an algorithm that achieves that.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> It’s compressible. I know it is from empirical evidence from applications I use in practice. It’s a misconception that led people to believe that you can’t compress this data efficiently. It’s just less trivial to develop an algorithm that achieves that.

<a​mmortel:monero.social> Please do it I would donate

<r​ucknium:monero.social> hardhatter: Here is an MRL issue about "Scale the blockchain with recursive ZK proofs" monero-project/research-lab #110

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I’m willing to use the Mina protocol or use IP that I explicitly develop for a folding blockchain. But the most suitable compression algorithm I’m not sharing. The less suitable I don’t think is worth me working on when a folding blockchain is possible

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I’m willing to use the Mina protocol or use IP that I explicitly develop for a folding blockchain. But the most suitable compression algorithm I’m not sharing. The less suitable compression algorithm I don’t think is worth me working on when a folding blockchain is possible

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Btw a consequence of this compression algorithm is I could basically single handedly take over the chia network. So consider that as a security risk

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Not entirely relevant to PoW tho

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> While I admire your passion and dedication towards this issue. It isn't helping to not share your research with the community

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I could’ve said nothing. In fact saying at all was only a detriment to my own privacy

<b​asses:matrix.org> sure, guess you never checked this bookmark lmao

<b​asses:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/CxWuRqhMrHYPWRzZTgpCdYrQ

<b​asses:matrix.org> .

<b​asses:matrix.org> guess this is one of them

<b​asses:matrix.org> github.com/kelvintechie1

<b​asses:matrix.org> this u kiddo?

<b​asses:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/ArwbeYbOlVqNaKgxhdYrFApR

<k​imapr0:matrix.org> Just wait when they are away from home long enough, then you can fsck

<k​imapr0:matrix.org> oh this is not the offtopic room

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Wow, 4x CCNP

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Okay so back of the napkin calculation. If we intend to cap out at the visa networks tx/s. Then as long as the average person can achieve a PB of storage that can buy us like 30 years. So if the eventual the average person can hold 100 PB. I’d say we’re gonna be fine for a long time ~3000 years

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Okay so back of the napkin calculation. If we intend to cap out at the visa networks tx/s. Then as long as the average person can achieve a PB of storage that can buy us like 30 years. So if eventually the average person can hold 100 PB. I’d say we’re gonna be fine for a long time ~3000 years

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> If we don’t go far past what fcmps are already adding to the tx size

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> That’s also assuming we can throttle not to go above the visa network tx/s which should be doable

<r​ucknium:monero.social> For that scale, you need to consider CPU usage and internet bandwidth as possible bottlenecks, too

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Lmfao you’re right. And frankly I’m skeptical we’re gonna scale that fast in that space. I think it’s more likely judging from the current path industry is taking that it’s atleast plausible that internet bandwidth will scale enough. But given the approach industry has been consistently taking for that last several decades with microprocessor I’m pretty skeptical they<clipped message>

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> ’re gonna scale fast enough. But hey it only takes one researcher to figure solution to the problem. It might happen but I would’ve thought it would’ve happened 2 decades ago

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Lmfao you’re right. And frankly I’m skeptical we’re gonna scale that fast in that space. I think it’s more likely judging from the current path industry is taking that it’s atleast plausible that internet bandwidth will scale enough. But given the approach industry has been consistently taking for that last several decades with microprocessors I’m pretty skeptical they<clipped message>

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> ’re gonna scale fast enough. But hey it only takes one researcher to figure out a solution to the problem. It might happen but I would’ve thought it would’ve happened 2 decades ago

<r​ucknium:monero.social> hardhatter: When you edit a message on Matrix, the IRC relay gets spammed with duplicate messages

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I know my bad. I thought this channel was less serious so I’ve been less careful about typos. But I’ll try to be more careful here as well

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I should’ve also mentioned that I do think storage will scale quickly enough if that wasn’t implicit from the comment with the napkin calculation

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> The cpu bottle neck is inherently gonna bottle neck the internet bandwidth. But I don’t think internet bandwidth will be the bottleneck that we run into if cpu isn’t a bottleneck

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I might be possible to scale enough with microprocessors to buy us over 100 yrs but that depends on whether or not they can cool them effectively, which is questionable. Otherwise they have to figure out how to move passed microprocessors

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> It might be possible to scale enough with microprocessors to buy us over 100 yrs but that depends on whether or not they can cool them effectively, which is questionable. Otherwise they have to figure out how to move passed microprocessors

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Lmfao here I go again with typos ugh

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Also I think it would be better if monero was viable on less powerful computers and less demanding telecommunications infrastructure. We don’t need to depend on high precision machinery and amounts of resources inaccessible to the average person to manufacture computers that could hypothetically run on a folding blockchain

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> run a folding*

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ra.network/aRcmZPbLDqGszDpYLpKxvxzG

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> at last i recieved it

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> the delivery just 3 months lol

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> the delivery just took 3 months lol

<p​epe86frog:matrix.org> great book

<s​toplightskydiver:matrix.org> Looks like a great read! Gonna put it on my purchase list

<s​toplightskydiver:matrix.org> I wonder if the author accepts XMR lol

<s​toplightskydiver:matrix.org> I wonder if you can buy it with XMR lol

<s​toplightskydiver:matrix.org> And you actually can

Of course, because it would have been hypocritical to make a book about Monero, but the only way to pay for it is with fiat currencies.

Like all these people on YouTube telling you how YouTube sucks and how you have to move to whatever alt tech platform they want you to move to, but they themselves remain on YouTube, and will probably never even log into any of those alt tech accounts themselves.

<b​az:monero.social> i'm going to buy one too, proper shilling Nihilist [blog.nihilism.network] 👍️

<b​az:monero.social> i'll be honest with ya, i downloaded the ebook off Anonymouse. i'll pickup the hardcover for my lapse in judgment.

<b​az:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/mCNaljLzRXAAUTVrRblSxilh

<b​az:monero.social> redemption

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Is this the same person who keeps talking about pruning the monero blockchain on monerotalk?

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Me? No I’m not that guy and I think pruning has more serious consequences since that can cause the proof of legitimacy of the most recent balances to be called into question. Plus a folding blockchain is orders of magnitude more compact than what a pruned blockchain would be in practice

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> hardhatter I think you should share your thoughts in #monero-research-lounge instead of #monero

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I mean look I’m just replying to that guy. I’m not gonna keep bringing this exact discussion up here if no one is continuing the conversation in any way.

hello guys

how are you?

<a​aa:nope.chat> that's not me

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> LIAR!